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Post by niff on Sept 17, 2013 13:59:59 GMT
The 'community organizer' couldn't have come along at a worse time. That's a given. What he did was to add another element to the 'perfect economic storm'. His incompetence surely has exacerbated things. BUT the only real person to blame is 'Mr. Lew' in China for waking up one day and saying: "Wait a minute! The last time I was in New York to visit my sons who are all working on their PHDs in economics I saw blue jeans ON SALE! for a hundred bucks. I did some quick math and I can SELL a pair WHOLESALE that looks just like Levis (I'll even use the same label with one number different then the originals) for eight bucks to Wally Mart. I'll pay each villager a buck a day to work twelve hours a day six days a week. They'll be delighted! They can bring the kids and I'm sure I can find something for them to do like clean out the dye vats.
Had Romney become the President I'm sure some things he would have done would have helped prolong the inevitable and softened the fall but as long as there are tens of millions of 'Mr. Lews' out there who can literally become millionaires 'repurposing' used tooth brushes the US 'middle class' will soon become a distant memory. "Remember when we used to have six credit cards and we used to get 'take-out three times a week dear?'" Kid: "What's a credit card and what's a 'take-out' daddy?"
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Post by ShivaTD on Sept 17, 2013 14:19:44 GMT
Been through one of the worst recessions in history. And there is long term unemployment and part time labour consequence? Golly gosh! Think what would have happened if one of the right wingers had instead got in power. Given they don't do economics, we'd be in all sorts
First of all, from a GDP standpoint the economy has recovered. The problem is that the basically only people benefiting from the recovery are the top 1% of income earners while the workers are worse off than ever before. The GDP growth in somewhat anemic because of the loss of purchasing power by the workers and the Federal Reserve's artificially lowering of the interest rates that has taken hundreds of billions of dollars away from America's retirees that generally have their assets in secure investments like T-Bills.
The reason for the economic collapse was a lack of regulation so stating that more regulation isn't required is counter-intuitive. We needed more regulation, not less.
While I don't support Keynesian economic philosophy it has been the predominate economic philosophy of the US government since the 1970's under Nixon. Under Keynesianism the government is supposed to "save money for a rainy day" so that it can invest in infrastructure during economic downturns. The problem is that between 2001 and 2009 (i.e. the Bush Years) the United States did not pay down the national debt which former President Bush promised to do in his 2001 State of the Union address. Instead of reducing the national debt to about 2 trillion dollars over eight years he fundamentally doubled it to about $10 trillion leaving nothing for the incoming Obama administration to use to invest in infrastructure based upon Keynesian economic philosophy.
Because of the high national debt inherited by the Obama Administration the borrowing has increased the national debt to the point that it's dragging down GDP growth. We need higher taxation to pay for the expenditures so that the full cost of government is funded and the national debt paid down. Republicans oppose raising taxes even enough to pay for current expenditures much less enough to pay down the national debt.
I had to laugh a mention of the Keystone pipeline. It is estimated to create about 10,000 short term construction jobs, many of which are in Canada, and only about 250 long time US jobs for operation. I don't think that 250 jobs is really relevant to long term unemployment in the millions. What actually makes more sense is the building of oil refineries on the Canadian border so that the oil can be refined there and gasoline shipped to the northern United States as opposed to piping oil as far south as Texas to be refined and then the fuel shipped by trucks back to the northern United Stas.
I've never read of one proposal by Republicans that would create jobs. All I've ever read were about greater tax breaks for investors that invest in the secondary stock market that doesn't provide any capital to enterprise. The investors are already reaping all of the wealth from the recovery and it isn't creating any jobs because investors don't create jobs (except for stockbrokers).
To date there has been very little spending on "Obamacare" that doesn't even go into effect until next year. How someone can mention it related to the fact that the only people really benefiting from the economic recovery seems a bit strange.
The fact is that overall the economy has recovered and the problem is that only the wealthy are benefiting from the recovery. It would obviously help if we used the income from the wealthy that are benefiting from the recovery to eliminate the deficits and reduce the national debt but Republicans oppose that.
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Post by ShivaTD on Sept 17, 2013 14:29:07 GMT
Back to the point of the thread. We have an urgent and immediate need to address the long-term unemployed in the United States. This cannot wait on proposals that might increase employment ten years down the road. It must be addressed now and the House of Representatives, which is responsible for spending authorizations, needs to address it immediately. The House is currently controlled by Republicans so what are Republicans proposing to address the immediate needs of the long-term unemployed? I haven't read of one proposal from them about this.
This is an immediate issue regardless of cause or long term goals. What do Republicans propose to provide immediate financial relief to those suffering from long-term unemployment? They need to make a proposal that will be approved by the Senate that is controlled by the Democrats so what are they proposing?
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Post by niff on Sept 17, 2013 15:27:38 GMT
All that's going to happen to the 'long term unemployed' is they are going to become the 'longer term unemployed'. There's no 'good paying secure jobs left.......unless you want to try to compete with hundreds of thousands of Chinese and East Indian PHDs who themselves are finding it virtually impossible to get a 'good paying job".
What a minute! I forgot. There's 5 million "good paying jobs" out there. Silly me.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW8U9uUweyw
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Post by ShivaTD on Sept 17, 2013 15:44:40 GMT
All that's going to happen to the 'long term unemployed' is they are going to become the 'longer term unemployed'. There's no 'good paying secure jobs left.......unless you want to try to compete with hundreds of thousands of Chinese and East Indian PHDs who themselves are finding it virtually impossible to get a 'good paying job". What a minute! I forgot. There's 5 million "good paying jobs" out there. Silly me.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW8U9uUweyw
The key to increasing the number of high paying jobs is in increasing the amount of disposable income for low and middle income individuals as they have the highest percentage of income dedicated to consumption. |
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Post by iolo on Sept 17, 2013 16:18:11 GMT
Well, you choose to live under capitalism - what do you expect, and what can it conceivably have to do with your President? It is an insane system outside human control, as you know. Capitalism has been the ONLY system since the overthrow of feudalism, as you know (though Americans are not allowed to learn the term 'state capitalism' even they must have noticed the working class has not taken power). Capitalism has caused colonialism, racism, slavery, world war and massive starvation, amongst other happy gifts. Grow up and stop talking drivel. |
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Post by niff on Sept 17, 2013 17:40:21 GMT
And what do you think Chairman Mao and Stalin did to name a couple of genocidal mass murderers? Stop with the personal insults already.
If you really believe the World wars were caused by Capitalism I'd consider bringing suit against the (cough) teachers who taught you this notion.
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Post by ShivaTD on Sept 17, 2013 20:07:34 GMT
Trying to avoid being side-tracked we have a serious problem of long-term unemployment RIGHT THIS MINUTE in the United States. It has nothing to do with the past or the future because it's a problem right now that urgently needs to be addressed by Congress. Many of these were middle income families and they've run out of emergency unemployment insurance that ends after 12 months of unemployment. They've probably already consumed their retirement savings and are being forced into selling their homes in a lousy real estate market or of simply being foreclosed upon. They're being driven into abject poverty all because of a failure of our government to property regulate the banking industry prior to the 2008 recession.
The United States government created the Recession by a lack of oversight of the banking industry. Everything else is fallout from that simple fact. Because the government created the recession it is our government's responsibility to deal with the average Americans that did not benefit from the lack of regulation, were not bailed out by TARP, and that are not benefiting from the recovery from the Recession.
So what do Republicans that control the House of Representatives, that are responsible for creating the spending bills of Congress, proposing to do about this disastrous situation that exists at this very moment in time? It is something that only the Federal government can address and mitigate so what's being done? The President can't do it alone, the Senate can't do it alone, because it has to start with the House of Representatives.
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Post by niff on Sept 18, 2013 6:41:40 GMT
Are you getting paid by the word by the LIBs?
The root cause of the economic collapse of the US economy is Globalization. You want the 'Government' to fiddle around with the tax laws as a solution to a problem that will never go away, only get bigger. There are tens of millions of Chinese and East Indians who are literally able to make multimillions 're-purposing' used tooth brushes. Demanding that the Government take more money from the high income earners and 're-distribute' it to those who will never get another descent job because 'Mr. Lew' is now making blue jeans for Wally Mart instead of the 'union shop' in Georgia is naive.
On another note but in the same book the President of the AAA has just stated that the price of gas in the country, which has been above three bucks a gallon for over a thousand days, "will never again be lower than three bucks. Ever. Just as the odds of a long term unemployed person will NEVER, generally speaking, get another 'good paying job..........unless he can get one of the five million "good paying jobs" promised by Obama during his campaign.
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Post by ShivaTD on Sept 18, 2013 10:14:18 GMT
It is a myth that globalization is the cause of the economic woes of the United States. In 2012 the US had a trade deficit of only $539.514 billion while we had an estimated nominal GDP $16.62 trillion. The trade deficit is an accurate measurement of the impact of globalization in the United States and at only about 3% of our GDP it isn't affecting the United States all that much.
I can also provide an anecdotal argument. In the past I worked for Smiths Aerospace, a global corporation, that had machine shops in the US and China (I worked at one in the US) and we had to compete with the Chinese shop for work based upon the costs of production. Machine shop work is high paying in the United States and we competed very successfully on parts production specifically when it involved complex machining and exotic metals (e.g. high nickel alloy steel). Basically China got the easier lower paying simple work and we got the better paying complex work because we could produce higher quality complex parts for less than China could. We competed head to head and were very successful. I also worked at Boeing and Boeing outsources some work to China but there is a caveat. China is very slow at change incorporation so assemblies that had high change incorporation statistically were not outsourced to China. Only stable work was outsourced. Of course even with the outsourcing the planes were built in the US, China purchased the planes, and the US came out on top financially.
The United States has a huge global advantage in technological development and many manufacturing capabilities that we can exploit and easily compete in the global market. As I've noted though while our "economy" has recovered from the recession it did so without inclusion of the workers. It has instead been based upon the parasitic growth from investments in secondary markets. All of the "wealth" is going to the "wealthy" with virtually none of it going to the workers that "consume" and provide the foundation for a robust economy. What we're seeing is "profit taking" as opposed to "wealth creation" and it is due to our tax codes that favor the wealthy investor over the common worker. But that is a long term problem that doesn't address the problem being presented here.
We have an urgent problem right this minute related to the long term unemployed that Congress needs to deal with regardless of the past or the future. They need immediate financial assistance and not a theoretical job in five years. We can certainly create more jobs in five years but that doesn't help the long term unemployed today.
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Post by iolo on Sept 18, 2013 12:27:43 GMT
And what do you think Chairman Mao and Stalin did to name a couple of genocidal mass murderers? Stop with the personal insults already. If you really believe the World wars were caused by Capitalism I'd consider bringing suit against the (cough) teachers who taught you this notion. Behaved like standard capitalist dictators, obviously. Why do you ask? And if you don't believe the wars were caused by imperialist battles for markets you must be working for some of them. |
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Post by niff on Sept 18, 2013 12:46:07 GMT
Sounds to me like you are one of the 'long-term unemployed'.
1 If anything could be done to create 'good paying jobs' right now don't you think Obama would be working on it? He's not. 'The Campaigner-In-Chief' is spending his time golfing. The other day when the latest mass murder was actually still happening Obama was on TV attacking the REPs. An hour later when the situation still was not under control by the authorities Obama was 'teeing off'.
2 Obama and Co. aren't doing SFA to extend any assistance to the long-term unemployed. NOTHING. I guess the 'long term unemployed don't matter to him 'vote-wise'.
All he'd need to do is go on TV and wave a piece of paper and tell the country: "In my hand is an emergency bill I am willing to sign right here and now that will extend assistance to the long term unemployed. No 'pork' hidden in it. No hidden agenda in the fine print. Just straight up cash money to see the long term unemployed through another six months while I sit down with both parties and do our very best to help right now today. I have personally gone to ask John and Eric to sign on with me on this critical matter".
Never going to happen. Ever.
3 You anecdotal story is related to people who are at the top of the 'skill/smarts' list in the manufacturing industries.
Robotics have taken a lot of those jobs away and you know it. That leaves the millions of workers who were/are poorly educated, unskilled who used to have descent paying jobs making nails and blue jeans. These are the true 'middle class'. These are the jobs that left never to return. These are the people who can only buy Chinese made jeans from Wally Mart for their kids. Forever more.
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Post by iolo on Sept 18, 2013 13:40:24 GMT
Sounds to me like you are one of the 'long-term unemployed'. 1 If anything could be done to create 'good paying jobs' right now don't you think Obama would be working on it? He's not. 'The Campaigner-In-Chief' is spending his time golfing. The other day when the latest mass murder was actually still happening Obama was on TV attacking the REPs. An hour later when the situation still was not under control by the authorities Obama was 'teeing off'. 2 Obama and Co. aren't doing SFA to extend any assistance to the long-term unemployed. NOTHING. I guess the 'long term unemployed don't matter to him 'vote-wise'. All he'd need to do is go on TV and wave a piece of paper and tell the country: "In my hand is an emergency bill I am willing to sign right here and now that will extend assistance to the long term unemployed. No 'pork' hidden in it. No hidden agenda in the fine print. Just straight up cash money to see the long term unemployed through another six months while I sit down with both parties and do our very best to help right now today. I have personally gone to ask John and Eric to sign on with me on this critical matter". Never going to happen. Ever. 3 You anecdotal story is related to people who are at the top of the 'skill/smarts' list in the manufacturing industries. Robotics have taken a lot of those jobs away and you know it. That leaves the millions of workers who were/are poorly educated, unskilled who used to have descent paying jobs making nails and blue jeans. These are the true 'middle class'. These are the jobs that left never to return. These are the people who can only buy Chinese made jeans from Wally Mart for their kids. Forever more. Capitalist governments can't do anything for the economy because they are controlled by the very capitalists who crapped it up. Obvious, innit? |
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Post by ShivaTD on Sept 18, 2013 16:27:00 GMT
All he'd need to do is go on TV and wave a piece of paper and tell the country: "In my hand is an emergency bill I am willing to sign right here and now that will extend assistance to the long term unemployed. No 'pork' hidden in it. No hidden agenda in the fine print. Just straight up cash money to see the long term unemployed through another six months while I sit down with both parties and do our very best to help right now today. I have personally gone to ask John and Eric to sign on with me on this critical matter".
It would have to be a proposal from House Republicans so that they could claim the credit for it.
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Post by niff on Sept 18, 2013 17:33:31 GMT
The 'OJ jury' elected Obama solely in the color of his skin and because of the promises he made to them.
They got what they paid for. A narcissistic 'charismatic' with the ability to put on an excellent S. Baptist drawl when potential votes were in the room.
He is seen around the world an inept naive man WAY over his head and nowhere near worthy of his 'pay-scale.
He has no one in his inner circle who can speak truth to power. He wants/needs it that way.
Thank God he'll be down the road eventually.
Even his own sycophants in the media are jumping ship. When that happens you've got to know he turned out to be 'all hat and no cattle'. Must be pretty embarrassing to be LIB these days.
If Obama was any kind of real President he would have knuckled down and worked on the social issues in the country which are destroying it. Like "addressing" long term unemployment'. But no.
To be honest I'd rather he spent as much time as possible golfing. His 'Black caddy' gets extra tips.
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