|
|
Post by ShivaTD on Sept 3, 2013 11:23:22 GMT
Even today, ten years after the US invasion of Iraq, there are still many that make claims that have long since been proven to be false. Much of this was because of extreme media bias that often propagated myths before and during the initial stages of the war. What "news source" a person was depending upon greatly influenced their beliefs and many are still believing the myths of the Iraq War. It is time to address this.
All of these false beliefs have been exposed and yet many still believe them.
For example we still have claims that Saddam's regime had connections with al Qaeda and that al Qaeda existed in Iraq prior to the 2003 invasion. In truth we learned that there was only one small al Qaeda cell in Iraq prior to the 2003 invasion and it was in the Kurdish region that was, to a large degree, outside of Saddam's control. The claims were also made that members of Saddam's regime met with members of al Qaeda which is only partially true. There were a couple of meeting where individuals, well after the fact, were found to have connections with al Qaeda but there was no way that government officials in Iraq would have known this at the time of the meetings.
There was certainly no connection between Iraq and the 9/11 attacks or al Qaeda and while former President Bush claimed he'd never made that connection in later years the truth was quite different. On 125 separate occasions leading up to the Iraq War the Bush Administration made numerous misleading statements in an effort to draw a connection between Saddam and al Qaeda.
In truth al Qaeda didn't enter Iraq until 2003 in response to the US invasion and was headed by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian militant (terrorist) that didn't align himself with Osama bin Laden al Qaeda network until 2004.
We also know that the pro-war news media, especially Fox News, was active in propagating the myth that Iraq had WMD's in 2002-2003 when we know that there was no evidence of WMD's and the UN Weapons Inspectors on the ground in Iraq were reporting that fact. There are those that continue to maintain that Iraq was in non-compliance with UNSC 1441 but that is also a false belief that was spread by the pro-war media.
As also noted above the United Nations Security Council never authorized the invasion of Iraq by the United States. Once again it was the pro-war media that misrepresented this to the American People and it was false but people still believe it.
What we know today virtually all of Iraq's chemical weapons had been destroyed by UN forces at the end of the Gulf War. Saddam couldn't document this as it wasn't conducted by Iraq. In an interview after being captured Saddam also stated that he had issued the order to destroy any remaining chemical weapons that could be found in 1998. This destruction of chemical weapons was carried out locally by military commanders and there wasn't a "documentation" trail that Iraq could produce for the UN. Iraq at no time after the Gulf War attempted to restart chemical, biological, or nuclear weapon programs.
We know now, and many of us knew in 2002-2003, that everything that was being presented by the news media related to the 1980's, prior to the Gulf War, when it came to WMD's in Iraq including the use of chemical weapons against the Kurds that occurred in 1988. We also know that the allegations that there was a connection between Saddam's Iraq and al Qaeda. or that al Qaeda was in Iraq prior to the Iraq War, were blatantly false.
There was never any reason for the Iraq War and it was a fabricated war based upon false information being provided by the Bush Administration and was being propagated by the pro-war media of which Fox News was the most culpable. If someone was obtaining their information from Fox News prior to the Iraq War there is a better than even chance that they still believe the lies and propaganda that was being presented by the news media.
If a person got their news from Fox News or CBS News they should realize that virtually everything they believe about Iraq and the Iraq War was propaganda and much of it was outright lies that were being propagated by the Bush Administration in 2002-2003.
|
|
|
|
Post by maniacalhamster on Sept 17, 2013 17:32:06 GMT
If a person got their news from Fox News or CBS News they should realize that virtually everything they believe about Iraq and the Iraq War was propaganda and much of it was outright lies that were being propagated by the Bush Administration in 2002-2003.
You can add wikipedia to that. The first Iraq war brought us total prempted TV, new weapons, propaganda etc. I was a staunch pacifist and found it hard to believe Brian mulrony our prime minister was going along with this weird war. Until the news was showing this woman crying about the Iraqi soldiers stealing incubators from the hospital she worked at. This was flashed all over the world via CNN and various news stations. I went nuts and wanted to nuke the Iraqis....bastards!!!! it was aired during Desert Shield operations, just before launching Desert Storm. 2 months after the war ended i caught a piece on CNN where they interviewed tjhe woman who admitted after questioning, that she lived in San Fransico and did not own a passport. why then claim to be working in a kuwaiti hospital. She said CIA paid her 15 grand to do the piece. Poindexter died and a new head of CIA was in place. He admitted she was right and i Quote perfectly his words. " We were losing support at home for the war so we did this piece. Sometimes the american people need to be fooled." i was outraged that my government allowed me to produce hatred in mind stream based on a lie. when the next Iraqui war came into play and the moment claims of WMD were made, i called foul. i was able to bring up links to what i just said and post them on sites now all gone. maybe one yahoo private site i am banned from has it still. so at the time i emailed every major tv network and newspaper in canada asking them if they were going to lie to us again... they never answered me...but on one CBC television round table discussion a reporter brought up" could this be the same as the baby incubator story?' he was slammed down no no no Saddam does have WMD..... a few years back on PF i was talking about this and was asked for links...i was told i was bull *fairy dust*ting..... i could not find anything on google...it's all dleted...except some thing in Wikipedia.... here read the lies for yourself en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_(testimony)in my neighbourhood a pharmacist who was the head of the pharmacy in the kuwait hospital killed himself laughing when i told him my "TALE". i kept asking him why are you laughing why are you laughing....he said continue... then told me he and his colleagues watched CNN televise the CIA piece and knew it was a lie. he also explained to me he lived in a penthouse apartment and there was a knock at the door.. 3 Iraqui soldiers said they were hungry and asked for food. he said we are eating would you care to join us... they removed their boots and left their weapons outside in the hallway and were very polite. this shocked me for the way the Iraqis were propagandized one would think they would steal all the food and rape his wife and children... |
|
|
|
Post by maniacalhamster on Sept 17, 2013 17:40:53 GMT
someone went to a lot of trouble to change the history, delete all the files and write the wiki piece..
i did see on CNN the head of CIA say it was them that paid this woman who is not the one in wiki....
1984 is alive and well and we are living it.
|
|
|
|
Post by ShivaTD on Sept 17, 2013 19:27:41 GMT
I was in a discussion (more so than a debate) in a now defunct forum in 2002-2003 where we discussed the "evidence" being presented in support of invading Iraq. The discussion was with those that were actively involved in following the entire chain of events and not just "sheeple" following the nightly news without questioning anything. I was still a part of a distinct minority (whether it was 20% like the general public or not I don't know).
We discussed the "British" intelligence that was from a post graduate student in Berkley written in 1992 about Iraq in the 1980's that was being cited as it was "current" intelligence. While very accurate from a historical standpoint it had absolutely nothing to do with 2002. We reviewed the claims of "chemical precursors" such as chlorine that is a common component of laundry bleach and the fact that the average household contains numerous "chemical precursors" that could, in theory, be turned into chemical weapons. We discussed the fact that all of the "Iraqi" informants were expatriated and hadn't lived or been in Iraq for over ten years and that they could be potentially lying (and we now know they were) simply because they wanted Saddam overthrown. We discussed Colin Powell circling a semi-truck as not actual evidence of a "mobile chemical weapon" production facility. We discussed every UN weapons inspector report that reported no evidence of chemical weapons, that Iraq didn't have a nuclear weapons program, and that there was no evidence of any biological or chemical weapons facilities.
We discussed it all and yet those supporting the Bush Administration stuck to their guns insisting that our government must surely have some other undisclosed evidence which justified their support for invading Iraq. They were good people and they simply couldn't believe that our government was deceiving us. Sadly that forum closed before the Iraq War was very far advanced so I lost track of those that I'd been discussing the issue with. They were sincere and I'm sure they feel betrayed by our own government when the facts came out that the US (and Britain) really didn't have any undisclosed intelligence that indicated Iraq had WMD's. The whole "War" propaganda campaign was built upon Iraq of the 1980's before the UN destroyed the vast majority of Iraqi WMD's at the end of the Gulf War.
And because of that propaganda campaign where the White House deceived the American People over 150,000 innocent Iraqis died, over 4,000 US soldiers died, and hundreds of thousands have more have suffered enduring life-long physical and mental disabilities.... and it dramatically increased the terrorist threat against America in allowing Islamic fundamentalists associated with international terrorist organizations a foothold in Iraq where they had never been before.
Don't get me wrong, Saddam was a very bad man, but the US invasion of Iraq made the world less safe and the negative consequences of the Iraq War will last for generations to come.
|
|
|
|
Post by dangermouse on Sept 17, 2013 23:39:04 GMT
 Mention of the "Dodgy(unreliable) Dossier" reminds me... The echoes are stll reverberating, I've seen claims that the Syrian WMD's were smuggled there from Iraq... |
|
|
|
Post by maniacalhamster on Sept 18, 2013 2:38:38 GMT
Don't get me wrong, Saddam was a very bad man, but the US invasion of Iraq made the world less safe and the negative consequences of the Iraq War will last for generations to come.
I recall Queen elizabeth talking to an american journalist at the time of Desert shield. she warned that any time one goes to war there are repercussions. I'm paranoid that CIA actually said it was them that created the piece of video for the public talked about in my post....and now it's totally deleted and all one can get is some story about a women who had nothing to do with the CIA piece. I want to sue my government for allowing me to produce hatred against an innocent people through allowing this propaganda to be aired on Canadian TV.. very weird... |
|
|
|
Post by ShivaTD on Sept 18, 2013 9:14:13 GMT
The negative effects of war are so numerous that it would be hard to list them all but as a US Army veteran of the Vietnam War that is one that is specifically troubling to me.
After the Vietnam War we didn't know anything about PTSD but hundreds of thousands of us suffered from it. As noted above the VA hospitals alone diagnosed PTSD in 29% of veterans seeking medical assistance but most veterans never set foot inside of a VA hospital and the VA tries to minimize the number of diagnosed cases because of the financial compensation they end up paying for the mental disability. "Mild" cases are not diagnosed but they still adversely affect the life of the veteran for the rest of their life. PTSD symptoms can be treated, generally with drugs, but it isn't curable and never goes away. From my personal conversations with other veterans that were actually involved in combat I've never met even one that didn't suffer PTSD to some degree.
I know personally that the problem of PTSD is worse than what's being reported. Most combat veterans are very proud people and they simply won't admit the problems they face daily and how their life is degenerated from this mental disorder. I suffer from mild PTSD and it's certainly affected my personal life adversely. I became a "work-a-holic" often putting in 12 hour days simply because "work" isn't personal and work was a place to hide. Sure, it made me a professional success but that was paid for by sacrificing my personal life.... and that's been going on for over 40 years. And I could say more but I won't. It's not something we share with others but instead it's something we live with day and night for the rest of our lives even when we have the medications to suppress many of the symptoms.
So as a Vietnam Veteran I oppose war if for no other reason that the huge price the combat veteran pays for it that no one is ever really aware of and that is perhaps the least of all the reasons to oppose war. The dead don't even get a chance to live a life with PTSD as they have no life at all and which side the dead were on makes no difference. Dead is Dead regardless of who's orders the soldier was following.
|
|
|
|
Post by fred on Sept 18, 2013 9:16:29 GMT
Mention of the "Dodgy(unreliable) Dossier" reminds me... The echoes are stll reverberating, I've seen claims that the Syrian WMD's were smuggled there from Iraq... Don't you know, there were no WMD found in Iraq because they were all sent to Syria? I knew governments were prone to lies before Iraq but I, foolishly, didn't believe men would kill so many in order to make money. |
|
|
|
Post by ShivaTD on Sept 18, 2013 9:26:18 GMT
The echoes are stll reverberating, I've seen claims that the Syrian WMD's were smuggled there from Iraq...
This is a carry-over from 2003-2004 when US military forces were unable to find any functional WMD's in Iraq and the "hardcore" Bush supporters made unsupported claims of convoys of trucks carrying WMD's left Iraq and transferred those weapons to Syria. In the intervening 10 years not one person has ever come forward stating that they participated in this mythical movement of WMD's from Iraq to Syria. Not a single truck driver or logistical person has ever stated they were involved in any WMD transfer from Iraq to Syria and the US government has never even implied it happened.
It is a "conspiracy theory" that is based upon myth without substance but many still believe it just like roughly 20% of Americans still falsely believe that Iraq had WMD's and connections with al Qaeda prior to the US invasion. Both are false but people still cling to their beliefs regardless of the facts.
|
|
|
|
Post by maniacalhamster on Sept 18, 2013 16:36:04 GMT
What freaks me out....is i post that the USA government lies to kill hundreds of thousands of people possibly a million in two wars...and like...it's just everyday common...
this knowledge that i and my wife watched unfold, met a guy who was in the hospital in Kuwait city , wikipedia posting this huge long diatribe thats all propaganda and guess what...FOR SOME KIDS IS TAKEN AS BIBLE TRUTH HISTORY.....
i read 1984...know that i am living it and fear it.....
wow....
i know i know get a life MH....
|
|
|
|
Post by fugazi on Nov 3, 2013 19:38:04 GMT
What I find hard to understand is why Bush, Blair and the rest of them have not been arrested and brought before a court to explain their illegal war. If I were to kill my neighbor based on the level of "intelligence" (ha ha) they used to justify attacking Iraq .. I wonder if the judge would free me.
I mean could I not say that based upon my sons testament that he had seen a gun in my neighbors house a few years ago and that I had-had problems with my neighbor lately that I thought he was going to attack me, so I got him first .. the mind boggles!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by fred on Nov 5, 2013 0:48:50 GMT
One has to look behind all the lies and see what the lies were for.
In this case, as with most American started wars since WWII, it was the American arms industry.
You have to see who makes money from these things and other issues such as American policy in the middle east.
Oil is a blind; the US arms industry is the real winner and driving force behind everything.
|
|
|
|
Post by Leo on Nov 5, 2013 1:43:15 GMT
What freaks me out....is i post that the USA government lies to kill hundreds of thousands of people possibly a million in two wars...and like...it's just everyday common... this knowledge that i and my wife watched unfold, met a guy who was in the hospital in Kuwait city , wikipedia posting this huge long diatribe thats all propaganda and guess what...FOR SOME KIDS IS TAKEN AS BIBLE TRUTH HISTORY..... i read 1984...know that i am living it and fear it..... wow.... i know i know get a life MH.... '. The death toll of Iraqis was certainly in the hundreds of thousands, and the ultra conservative figures published by the Iraq Body Count were inaccurate because of the methodology. The Iraq Body Count study, which requires a death to be overtly connected to war violence, uses a death count only if it has been confirmed by two independent, news organizations. In addition to which, the IBC does not accept reports in any language other than English. So if a representative of the English speaking news media didn't happen to be present in an Arabic speaking country when a child was hit by a stray bullet or a piece of shrapnel - the death did not occur (or rather, did not matter). Hardly a comprehensive, or even remotely accurate, survey of the Iraqi civilians killed. Yet it is the only reckoning the conservative war apologists accept.
|
|
|
|
Post by fred on Nov 5, 2013 3:56:45 GMT
The big problem with the anti war movement was who was most vocal in supporting it.
The biggest gobs were left wing idiots who no one believed or trusted.
|
|
|
|
Post by ShivaTD on Nov 5, 2013 12:38:49 GMT
What I find hard to understand is why Bush, Blair and the rest of them have not been arrested and brought before a court to explain their illegal war.
The actual invasion was a violation of the UN Charter as the Security Council had never authorized the use of force against Iraq and Iraq was complying with UN Resolutions related to the Weapons Inspectors verification of the claim by Iraq that it had no chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons and no programs to produce them.
The only "International Authority" that can actually deal with violations of the UN Charter is the UN Security Council and the US and UK both have veto authority as permanent members. No indictment was going to come from the UN.
Both the legislatures in the UK and US authorized the Use of Force (military action) so the members of the legislature would oppose indictments of either Bush or Blair respectively because they would also be subject to the indictment based upon complicity in the authorization.
Now individual war crimes and crimes against humanity are a different matter but neither the British government or the US government would prosecute their own leader for war crimes and crimes against humanity (and that is of course wrong) and once again as permanent members of the US Security Council they can technically block any prosecution by the International Court of Criminal Justice that the Security Council ultimately controls.
Personally I've always opposed the veto power of the UNSC permanent members that are exclusively used for political purposes that result in hypocrisy in UNSC actions.
|
|
