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Post by cenydd on Sept 5, 2013 13:07:47 GMT
edition.cnn.com/2013/08/29/opinion/citron-revenge-porn/index.html?hpt=ju_t4On the one hand it's easy to say 'don't let the pictures be taken in the first place', but then people do all kinds of things in the privacy of their own homes, and that's their business. Is it at all unreasonable of them to expect that it should stay that way, even if the relationship ends? Of course, most people would both hope and assume, if it's any kind of decent relationship in the first place, that their partners would never do such a thing, but there are no guarantees - should that prevent them from doing what just seems like a bit of harmless fun at the time, though? It's a difficult one, but it does seem to me that people should hold some kind of 'copyright' over their own bodies, and images taken of them in private!
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Post by ShivaTD on Sept 5, 2013 13:46:40 GMT
I would call this a simple case of "breach of contract" as there was an oral contract related to the taking of the photos. The woman should seek legal representation and file a lawsuit against the guy for breach of contract. If he doesn't have a signed release for the photographs, and I was on a jury, I'd find him in material breach of contract and subject to monetary damages. I might feel very compelled to make a substantial monetary award to the woman related to this.
See if he's laughing if he had to pay tens of thousands of dollars in damages for violating the verbal contract he had with her.
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Post by cenydd on Sept 5, 2013 14:00:00 GMT
The problem there, presumably, is a lack of witnesses to testify that that conversation about privacy did indeed take place. He could just as easily claim that she agreed that he could post the images online in the event of her dumping him, and then it is just her word against his. The law would have to be changed to require a signed release for such photographs by default, rather than according to any 'oral contract' that is claimed may or may not have taken place. I don't think such a law would be unreasonable.
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Post by ShivaTD on Sept 5, 2013 14:09:59 GMT
The problem there, presumably, is a lack of witnesses to testify that that conversation about privacy did indeed take place. He could just as easily claim that she agreed that he could post the images online in the event of her dumping him, and then it is just her word against his. The law would have to be changed to require a signed release for such photographs by default, rather than according to any 'oral contract' that is claimed may or may not have taken place. I don't think such a law would be unreasonable. I disagree because the burden of proof would be on the man that posted the images. He would be required to document that he had permission to publish the photos. The woman had nothing to gain from the publication and it would be assumed that, with nothing to gain, she wouldn't have authorized the publication. The man took "action" and would be required to prove that his actions were authorized IMHO.
I've been a photographer and I always obtained a signed release before publishing anything. Any professional photographer would do the same with a private person. There is an exception related to public individuals but not for private individuals.
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Post by ShivaTD on Sept 5, 2013 14:10:16 GMT
The problem there, presumably, is a lack of witnesses to testify that that conversation about privacy did indeed take place. He could just as easily claim that she agreed that he could post the images online in the event of her dumping him, and then it is just her word against his. The law would have to be changed to require a signed release for such photographs by default, rather than according to any 'oral contract' that is claimed may or may not have taken place. I don't think such a law would be unreasonable. I disagree because the burden of proof would be on the man that posted the images. He would be required to document that he had permission to publish the photos. The woman had nothing to gain from the publication and it would be assumed that, with nothing to gain, she wouldn't have authorized the publication. The man took "action" and would be required to prove that his actions were authorized IMHO.
I've been a photographer and I always obtained a signed release before publishing anything. Any professional photographer would do the same with a private person. There is an exception related to public individuals but not for private individuals.
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Post by maniacalhamster on Sept 11, 2013 15:45:32 GMT
Oral contracts are a joke in this day and age. The photographs were done with the permission of girl. They became the property of the photographer. It's the same with any item given freely to someone. Now if they were taken without consent, whole other ball of wax.
It's like an email. If a person sends you one with real hardcore private stuff ,it's yours to do what you want with it.
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Post by ShivaTD on Sept 12, 2013 15:25:34 GMT
Oral contracts are a joke in this day and age. The photographs were done with the permission of girl. They became the property of the photographer. It's the same with any item given freely to someone. Now if they were taken without consent, whole other ball of wax. It's like an email. If a person sends you one with real hardcore private stuff ,it's yours to do what you want with it. The only assumption necessary by the court is that the photographs were for the personal enjoyment and that any other use, such as publication, would require the expressed authorization of the person being photographed. With that assumption, which is a fair and just assumption, the responsibility to establish that the person being photographed agreed to publication is upon the photographer.
As I noted this is a common understanding with professional photographers when taking private photographs of a person which is why a signed written release for any other uses, such as publication or sale, was always obtained. If a professional photographer is held to this legal standard then it makes sense that everyone else should also be held to this legal standard.
This may already be covered by legal precedent but if not then it needs to be established as the person who's photographs are published without their express consent can suffer considerable harm.
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Post by ShivaTD on Sept 12, 2013 15:25:49 GMT
Oral contracts are a joke in this day and age. The photographs were done with the permission of girl. They became the property of the photographer. It's the same with any item given freely to someone. Now if they were taken without consent, whole other ball of wax. It's like an email. If a person sends you one with real hardcore private stuff ,it's yours to do what you want with it. The only assumption necessary by the court is that the photographs were for the personal enjoyment and that any other use, such as publication, would require the expressed authorization of the person being photographed. With that assumption, which is a fair and just assumption, the responsibility to establish that the person being photographed agreed to publication is upon the photographer.
As I noted this is a common understanding with professional photographers when taking private photographs of a person which is why a signed written release for any other uses, such as publication or sale, was always obtained. If a professional photographer is held to this legal standard then it makes sense that everyone else should also be held to this legal standard.
This may already be covered by legal precedent but if not then it needs to be established as the person who's photographs are published without their express consent can suffer considerable harm.
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Post by maniacalhamster on Sept 12, 2013 16:36:24 GMT
A professional photographer is being paid to do a service. Once monies exchange hands the legality aspect is well laid out.
What is moral and ethical is not necessary law.
If someone poses for me in a photo and they are aware i am using my camera , well those photos are mine. Mine to do what i want with them.
If they are nude photos and photos in comprising positions, performed by an adult and not a minor, what i do with them is my option.
There is a movie coming out about Linda lovelace...she was paid I believe, something like $1200.00 for her performance. The movie made something 600 million dollars world wide...and that was back in the seventies. Is it fair?....legal yes , fair no.
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Post by ShivaTD on Sept 13, 2013 10:45:43 GMT
Contract law applies regardless of whether money exchanges hands or not. Lacking any evidence to the contrary, such as a signed release form, the assumption is that the photos would not be for sale, distribution, or publication.
Linda Lovelace signed a written contract giving up all rights and authorizing distribution of the film made without additional remuneration for her acting roles for the amount specified and the conditions of the contract are enforceable.
In short a man cannot tell his girlfriend that the photos are for personal use and then sell, distribute and/or publish them. The man is not required to prove that she agreed to being photographed for his personal use as that is the assumption. He would have to prove that she authorized sale, distribution, and/or publication because that is not the basic assumption for the contract.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2013 15:53:38 GMT
Contract law applies regardless of whether money exchanges hands or not. Lacking any evidence to the contrary, such as a signed release form, the assumption is that the photos would not be for sale, distribution, or publication.
Linda Lovelace signed a written contract giving up all rights and authorizing distribution of the film made without additional remuneration for her acting roles for the amount specified and the conditions of the contract are enforceable.
In short a man cannot tell his girlfriend that the photos are for personal use and then sell, distribute and/or publish them. The man is not required to prove that she agreed to being photographed for his personal use as that is the assumption. He would have to prove that she authorized sale, distribution, and/or publication because that is not the basic assumption for the contract. As we have seen, "a man" can and will distribute photos on the internet for free. Having gained no money but plenty of revenge does not seem to be covered by the legal system that I can see.
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Post by ShivaTD on Sept 13, 2013 19:11:56 GMT
As we have seen, "a man" can and will distribute photos on the internet for free. Having gained no money but plenty of revenge does not seem to be covered by the legal system that I can see. The "benefit" doesn't need to be monetary under contract law. Two parties can make a non-disclosure agreement (which is actually the case here) and they are bound by that agreement. As noted we can assume legally that in these cases there is a verbal non-disclosure agreement lacking any other evidence.
I'll repeat for the nth time professional photographers know that the sale, distribution, and/or publication of the private photographs they take is prohibited by contract law unless they have a signed written release from the model. We can also note that "ignorance is no excuse under the law" and in this case, while the BF can claim to be ignorant of contract law that is not a legal excuse for publication of the photographs.
I've been a professional photographer and I know the laws related to this. Here is a brief summary from FindLaw.com on the issue.
As the situation addressed clearly indicates the purpose of the publication of the photographs does not meet the criteria to "inform" or "educate" and the laws of "Publicity" and "Privacy" are being violated by the unauthorized publication of the photos on the internet.
The "boyfriend" is certainly liable under a civil lawsuit as he cannot claim a First Amendment Right related to the unauthorized publications of the photographs as they were solely intended to harm the reputation of the woman in an act of revenge. The woman has the Right to Privacy under the law and the publication on the internet of nude photographs by her former boyfriend as an act of revenge clearly violated her rights.
A judge and/or a jury would find in favor of the plaintiff (the woman) in a lawsuit based upon the violation of her Right to Privacy regardless of the fact that no money changed hands.
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Post by albert on Sept 14, 2013 7:59:27 GMT
If God did not love stupid women God would not have created so many of them.
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Post by ShivaTD on Sept 14, 2013 11:08:13 GMT
If God did not love stupid women God would not have created so many of them. A rather odd statement considering that it's the man (boyfriend) that is stupid in this case as he's the one that violated the woman's Right of Privacy in an act of revenge by publishing the photos of the woman.
I hope she files a lawsuit and takes him for every dime he earns over then next ten years. His actions were despicable and he need to face the consequences of his actions.
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Post by maniacalhamster on Sept 24, 2013 6:49:49 GMT
i have enjoyed shiva's input in this thread and learned a few things from it.
i think he has a good handle the issue
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