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Post by JP5 on Nov 9, 2013 23:31:51 GMT
It's a sad day when even the French are being tougher against Iran than the U.S. It's clear Obama and Kerry haven't a clue what they are doing. It's embarrassing....and quite dangerous to have Mutt and Jeff in charge. Unfortunately, after he leaves.....it will take decades to undo the damage Obama has done regarding foreign relations since he's been in office.
"Negotiations among world powers to temporarily curb Iran's nuclear program appeared to stall Saturday when France questioned whether the proposal went far enough, after Israel’s strong objections to such an agreement.
The concerns cast doubt about whether an agreement can be reached during the current round of negotiations in Geneva.
A Western diplomat said a new round would be needed to agree on all points of a temporary deal that would to lead to a comprehensive agreement ensuring that Tehran's nuclear work remains peaceful.
He said preparations were being made by both sides for an announcement later in the day of a new meeting within a few weeks.
French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius said there were “several points” in the initial deal with which his country is not satisfied and told France-Inter Radio France does not want to be part of a "con game."
www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/11/09/world-powers-set-for-new-round-iran-nuke-talks/?intcmp=latestnews
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Post by ShivaTD on Nov 10, 2013 17:16:53 GMT
I have a real simple and straightforward political position on this.
Israel doesn't have a dog in the hunt!!!
Only those nations that are members of the (nuclear) Non-Proliferation Treaty have any say in the conditions of that treaty and any enforcement measures related to the conditions of the treaty that can be authorized by the UN Security Council. Israel is NOT a member of the NPT and does not comply with the provisions of that treaty.
The members of the NPT and the UN Security Council that are engaged in diplomatic discussion with Iran, a member of the NPT, on the provisions of the treaty and enforcement measures related to that treaty need to tell Benjamin Netanyahu and Israel to STFU until Israel joins the NPT and complies with the provisions of that treaty.
Additionally Israel has been threatening the use of force against Iran in direct violation of the UN Charter which is a treaty obligation of all member nations. The UN Security Council should take the pre-emptive step of authorizing the use of military force against Israel to destroy it's nuclear weapons if Israel uses military force against Iran. An actual military strike by Israel would violate the Charter of the United Nations that prohibits the unauthorized use of military force by any nation against another nation and additionally it would also destroy the efforts of the UN Security Council to reach a peaceful diplomatic resolution over concerns with Iran's nuclear programs.
This crap by Israel that "They must comply but we don't have to" is pure BS and Israel needs to be bitch-slapped by the UN Security Council.
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Post by ShivaTD on Nov 10, 2013 17:25:05 GMT
BTW - This is one issue that I'm highly critical of the Obama Administration as well as prior Administrations where they pander to Israel and refuse to enforce UN Security Council Resolutions, the UN Charter, and the (nuclear) Non-Proliferation Treaty when it comes to Israel.
I detest a double-standard when it comes to international affairs and the hypocrisy of the United States foreign policies related to Israel are contemptible because they reek of political hypocrisy.
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Post by JP5 on Nov 10, 2013 20:57:29 GMT
Israel is our friend; Iran is not and never has been. That's the difference.
Iran is the one who has stated publically they'd like to "wipe Israel off the map." Would you give up YOUR weapons living among an atmosphere like that when Iran and several other Middle East countries want you gone? Israel has weapons for defense....proof being in the FACT they've had them a long time and never used them, despite the threats.
I think not.
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Post by ShivaTD on Nov 11, 2013 10:20:41 GMT
Israel is our friend; Iran is not and never has been. That's the difference.
Iran is the one who has stated publically they'd like to "wipe Israel off the map." Would you give up YOUR weapons living among an atmosphere like that when Iran and several other Middle East countries want you gone? Israel has weapons for defense....proof being in the FACT they've had them a long time and never used them, despite the threats.
I think not.
Israel is our "friend" under the foreign policy of "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" which has always been a horrible foreign policy as it has always supported tyrannical regimes. Israel is a tyrannical regime regardless of opinions to the contrary.
Iran used to be "our friend" under "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" US foreign policy when the Shah of Iran was a tyrannical dictator over the Iranian People. The US even supported the overthrowing of the democratic government in Iran to install a tyrant over the Iranian people. When the Iranian people revolted against the decades of tyranny under the Shah then Iran stopped being our "friend" because we lost our "friendly" tyrannical dictator.
If I was the leader of a nation and I was given the choice between agreeing to mutually verifiable treaty banning all nuclear, chemical, and/or biological weapons to ensure my nation was never attacked with nuclear, chemical, and/or biological weapons I'd jump on that in an instant. Even if it was just a limited agreement to ban nuclear weapons I'd jump on that as well.
Iran has long stated that it will agree to ANY inspections of it's nuclear program that Israel would agree to if Israel joined the NPT. If Israel joins the NPT and allows unlimited IAEA inspections Iran will also allow them.
No nation in the Middle East needs to fear a nuclear attack IF the five permanent nuclear weapon nations take their roles and responsibilities seriously and are willing to respond to any nuclear attack by any nation with a full nuclear retaliation by one or all of the five authorized nuclear weapon nations. For example, if Israel or even the UK were ever to use one of it's nuclear weapons on any nation for any reason then the US should be fully willing to launch an all-out nuclear retaliatory response against. If the US was to use a nuclear weapon, except as retaliation related to a nuclear attack, then the Russia should be willing to launch an all-out nuclear retaliatory response against the United States.
Politics be damned when it comes to nuclear war because nuclear war is unacceptable, period! If we're to prevent a nuclear war from every happening again only the threat of total nuclear destruction of any nation ever using a nuclear weapon in any capacity will deter that from happening.
Today Israel is the only country in the Middle East representing a nuclear weapon threat and the threat Israel represents provides a legitimate reason for nations threatened militarily by Israel to develop nuclear weapons as a deterrent to a potential nuclear attack by Israel. Today Israel is openly threatening an offensive military strike against Iran (Iran has never threatened and offensive military strike against Israel) and that threat of offensive military action include the threat of nuclear weapons by Israel.
Nuclear disarmament is the only solution to the nuclear weapon threat while there is a valid reason for a limited number of nations to have nuclear weapons as a deterrent. I would add a caveat to that though. Any nation with nuclear weapons needs to be restrained form ANY military actions or military threats against ANY nation as any military action or military threat by a nuclear weapon nation represents the potential threat of nuclear war.
I will go back to my original statement.
Israel does not have a dog in the hunt when it comes to the enforcement of the NPT because it is not a member of that treaty nor does it comply with it as a non-member nation. It needs to be told to STFU because it's not a member of the NTP and doesn't comply with it!!
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Post by JP5 on Nov 11, 2013 15:34:24 GMT
It appears that more than just Iran hates Jews.
You complain about Israel regarding UN policies. And yet, you don't seem to back the one UN policy that actually gave the Jews a little sliver of land to build a state on. What? Do you simply pick and choose which things that the UN does that you support? And isn't it odd that the Jews have built a nice state full of cultural and welcoming visitors. What's the Palestinians done? Have they built a state.....YET? Uh, no, they haven't. All they do with the money we send them is spend it on weapons to get rid of those nasty Jews that live close by. There is nothing stopping the Palestinians from building something positive.....from building a state they could be proud of....and yet they don't do it. Because they, and their supporters, are all-consumed at getting rid of the Jews. What a way to live....or NOT live?
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Post by niff on Nov 11, 2013 16:55:13 GMT
Mention the word "Jew" around here and someone's head explodes. LOL
Make sure to let everyone know when those luxury car production lines start up in Palestine Shiva.
What's left of the former USSR's nuclear weapons are scattered through GOD knows how many countries. The dudes who used to know how to fire them are all driving cabs in NY or selling heroin to tiny ten year old girl 'models'.
The remaining Russian nuclear missiles, that haven't been looted for their gold wiring etc are rusting peacefully away in silos half full of rain water.
Anyway. Israel will once again blow Iran's nuclear bomb making facilities up. Iran will go screaming to the UN. The UN will send Israel a nasty letter of two before it's bunch of thugs and perverts heads home for the holidays.
The "Pickle Lady's' lap poodle will hole up in one of the "Pickle Lady's French mansions. Obama: "Israel? Iran? Something blown up? I have no knowledge of such a thing happening. Go to run. 'T' time you know."
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Post by ShivaTD on Nov 11, 2013 17:22:58 GMT
It appears that more than just Iran hates Jews.
You complain about Israel regarding UN policies. And yet, you don't seem to back the one UN policy that actually gave the Jews a little sliver of land to build a state on. What? Do you simply pick and choose which things that the UN does that you support? And isn't it odd that the Jews have built a nice state full of cultural and welcoming visitors. What's the Palestinians done? Have they built a state.....YET? Uh, no, they haven't. All they do with the money we send them is spend it on weapons to get rid of those nasty Jews that live close by. There is nothing stopping the Palestinians from building something positive.....from building a state they could be proud of....and yet they don't do it. Because they, and their supporters, are all-consumed at getting rid of the Jews. What a way to live....or NOT live?
The United Nations never gave the Zionist Jews ANYTHING. In an effort to end the disastrous results of the British Mandate for Palestine (the 2nd worst document of the 20th Century following closely behind the Treaty of Versailles that lead to the rise of the Nazis and WW II) that, in effect, violated the Rights of the People of Palestine (i.e. Arabs, Jews, and Christians) that were the residents of Palestine in 1922 the United Nations General Assembly submitted a resolution to the Arabs and Jews to end the civil war the British were responsible for. UNGA Resolution was a non-binding resolution that required the mutual consent of the Muslim Arabs and the Zionist Jews and it was REJECTED!!!
The Zionist Jews using the tactics of intimidation, coercion, and terrorism, defied the United Nations that was due to take over administrative authority over Palestine upon the British withdrawal in 1948. The Zionist Jews drafted a Declaration of Independence that just like the Declaration of Independence was a declaration of war against any that opposed them. The difference being that the Zionist Jews did NOT allow all of the Palestinians to be involved in making that declaration. They excluded the "Arabs" that were the majority population of Palestine from the vote and had, as noted above, used coercion and terrorism to eject Arab Palestinians from their homeland and, for the most part, has refused to allow those Arabs and/or their descendants to return to their homeland. The Zionist Jews still deny the Right of Return to Arabs to their homeland today. Additionally Zionist Jews literally stole the about 18% of the land in the "Zionist partitioned territory" (Israel) of Palestine and have denied any access to an impartial court where property claims can be made against the Israeli government for the violations of the Right of Property by the Arabs.
The Zionist State of Israel was founded upon tyranny and continues that tyranny to this day. It was not created by UN General Assembly 181 that was a proposal by the General Assembly to end a civil war created by the mismanagement of the British of Palestine. UN General Assembly required mutual consent of the warring parties that were comprised of native Palestinians and immigrant European Jews and was rejected by the original residents of Palestine. It was the fundamental the violation of the Rights of the Palestinians that the British, as the League of Nations' Mandatory of Palestine, created with the British Mandate of Palestine that they had no authority to create under the Article 22 of the League of Nations that the British also completely failed to comply with during it's 26 years as the Mandatory of Palestine.
It would be hard to imagine a worse country to select as the Mandatory over the former Turkish colonies in Transjordon and Palestine than the British that was a colonial power that had no previous success in creating a new government for a people that was required under Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations. The British had always treated the native people in it's colonies as a "subspecies" of humans with India and S Africa being prime examples of British colonial rule.
It is interesting historically because the unlawful overthrowing of the government of Hawaii and violations of the native Hawaiian People's Rights by American businessmen parallels the violations of the Palestinian People under the British mandatory. The State of Hawaii was by tyranny just like the State of Israel was created by tyranny where the Rights of the Native people were violated by immigrants.
Bottom line UN General Assembly Resolution 181 was an unbinding recommendation by the General Assembly to end the conflict created by the British that required the mutual consent of both the Jews and Arabs and it was was rejected and became moot. The was no United Nations authorization for the creating of Israel and the creation of Israel violated the authority of the United Nations in 1948.
Israel was created by Zionist tyranny over the native People of Palestine and continues that tyranny of the native People of Palestine in direct violation of UN Security Council Resolution that ARE binding on all UN member nations. Israel had continuously violated it's treaty obligations as a Member of the United Nations and has historically violated International Law in it's actions.
And this has absolutely nothing to do with "The Jewish People" as millions of Jews oppose the political ideology of tyranny inherent in Zionism that is based upon religious and ethnic discrimination that violates the Rights of the non-Jewish citizens of Palestine.
Anyone that embraces the ideals upon which America was founded has to oppose any nation founded upon religion, race, ethnic heritage, social status, or other invidious criteria that subjects those not of the "ruling class" to invidious discrimination that violates their Inalienable Rights as a Person.
Back to the point.
Israel is not a member of the (nuclear) Non-Proliferation Treaty nor does it comply with it and has no right or authority to have any say in either the provisions of the NPT or it's enforcement by the NPT members that are enforced by the United Nations Security Council. It need to either join the NPT and comply with that treaty or STFU as it's in worse non-compliance that Iran because it already possesses nuclear weapons that are prohibited by the NPT.
By analogy Israel is like a criminal with a gun demanding that someone it's threatening with that gun not be allowed to have a gun for self-defense.
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Post by ShivaTD on Nov 11, 2013 17:53:34 GMT
Mention the word "Jew" around here and someone's head explodes. LOL Make sure to let everyone know when those luxury car production lines start up in Palestine Shiva. What's left of the former USSR's nuclear weapons are scattered through GOD knows how many countries. The dudes who used to know how to fire them are all driving cabs in NY or selling heroin to tiny ten year old girl 'models'. The remaining Russian nuclear missiles, that haven't been looted for their gold wiring etc are rusting peacefully away in silos half full of rain water. Anyway. Israel will once again blow Iran's nuclear bomb making facilities up. Iran will go screaming to the UN. The UN will send Israel a nasty letter of two before it's bunch of thugs and perverts heads home for the holidays. The "Pickle Lady's' lap poodle will hole up in one of the "Pickle Lady's French mansions. Obama: "Israel? Iran? Something blown up? I have no knowledge of such a thing happening. Go to run. 'T' time you know."
No nuclear weapons from the former USSR have been scattered anywhere and all are under the control of Russia today.
The nuclear proliferation threat is being created solely by the rogue nuclear weapon nations of N Korea, India, Pakistan, and Israel of which only Israel is actually responsible for the proliferation of nuclear weapons to another nation (S Africa that has since dismantled it's nuclear weapons).
All of the rogue nuclear weapons nations should be treated identically by the UN Security Council as there should be no political hypocrisy by the UN Security Council in addressing world affairs. India and Pakistan have shared interest in mutual nuclear disarmament as the only reason for each of them to have nuclear weapons is as a deterrent to prevent an nuclear war with their neighbor. N Korea has a reason for it's nuclear weapons so long as the United States, a nuclear weapons nation, has troops sitting on it's Southern border threatening it with a potential nuclear attack. Israel has no reason for it's nuclear weapons because there are no nuclear weapons threats against it and has never been a nuclear weapon threat against it.
While there is no evidence that Iran is building a nuclear weapon it can be argued that as long as Israel, a rogue nuclear weapon nation, is threatening a potential nuclear war against Iran that it needs nuclear weapons as a deterrent against a potential nuclear attack by Israel based upon the principle of "Mutually Assured Destruction" (MAD) that the US and USSR engaged in for decades.
The United Nations Security Council has imposed severe economic sanctions against N Korea but have never removed the nuclear threat against it by removing the US troops from it's border. As long as there is a threat of a nuclear attack by the United States N Korea cannot logically dismantle it's nuclear weapons that are a deterrent to a US nuclear attack.
The United Nations Security Council must address the mutual nuclear weapon disarmament of India and Pakistan by a Resolution to impose economic sanctions if these two nations refused to mutually dismantle their nuclear weapons which is actually in the best interests of each of these nations.
The United Nations Security Council must address the nuclear weapons in Israel that is a nation that is not threatened by any nuclear attacks by any nation and that has historically been responsible for nuclear proliferation. The UN Security Council needs to approve a binding Resolution requiring Israel to dismantle it's nuclear weapons or be subjected to economic sanctions similar to those being imposed upon N Korea today.
Finally, the United Nations Security Council needs to address the potential, but currently non-existent, threat that Iran would represent if it were to manufacture nuclear weapons. It can only achieve this goal of preventing Iran from potentially producing a nuclear weapon if it removes the threat of nuclear attack by Israel that currently exists.
We need to stop playing politics with nuclear weapons that would ultimately result in a nuclear war. No rouge nuclear weapon nations can be allowed and those five nations that are authorized to retain nuclear weapons must work towards reducing their stockpiles to the least number possible to prevent any nation from ever using a nuclear weapon in war.
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Post by niff on Nov 11, 2013 18:24:25 GMT
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine As my niece says about her father: "He never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity". Hail the Arabs! How many times were they offered their own country and turned it down. Even Jimmy Carter couldn't convince Arafat to sign a peace treaty. Bottom line. In both world wars the Arabs put in with the Germans. For many reasons BUT the NUMBER ONE REASON was b/c the Germans basically told the Arabs that if they won the only trace of what was left of a Jew would be the lamp shades made from some Jew's skin. Now that is the truth. SO. After the Germans got their Arian ass's kicked and with them the Jew hating Arabs some 'retribution' was in order. Very fashionable in the day. The 'victors' decided to teach the Arabs a lesson they would not soon forget. Trouble is the Arabs 'forgot' the lesson in about 38-9 when they again backed the all time gold medal winner 'Jew Hater' Hitler. There is no single thing more important in an Arabs life then keeping 'face'. Their definition of 'keeping face' is to lie and steal and cheat as long as in their deluded minds they come out on top of the deal. And that genetic impulse is what has meant centuries long wars between any non Arab and themselves. FYI, they have never ultimately prevailed. And that's what drives them crazy to this day. To be honest there were probably a LOT of Allies who had pretty much had it with the Arabs by then. So. More retribution. More Arab disgrace. To make matters worse now everything the 'Zionists' touch turns to productive prosperous enterprise. And what do the Arabs end up with every time? A mouth full of humiliation. BTW, nice little bit of 'revisionist history. I like the part where you said "it was rejected". You forgot to add the fact that "it" was always rejected by the Arabs. Next time dig a little deeper. I'll spare you by not mentioning how pretty much every Arab country in the region attacked Israel in 67 and collectively got their butts handed to them in six days. More Arab humiliation. When will they ever learn? Next time a Jew offers an Arab an olive branch next time instead of attacking the Jew why not turn it into olive oil right? Make a couple of bucks and then he'll be able to feed his growing tribe of future Jew haters instead of buying bullets he'll fire off impotently into the air as usual.
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Post by ShivaTD on Nov 11, 2013 18:49:00 GMT
Yes, that native Palestinians always objected to the creation of a nation by immigrant European Jews that they never invited to move to Palestine and that were allow to immigrant to Palestine by the British that had no authority to violate the Rights of the existing Palestinians by allowing the immigration.
Gee, is there really any surprise with people objecting to their Rights being Violated by a bunch of immigrant terrorists?
But this is all off topic. The topic here is that Israel, as a non-NPT member and a nation in direct violation of the provisions of the NPT, has no say in the enforcement of the provisions of the NPT by the UN Security Council. Israel needs to be told by the UN Security Council to join the NPT, dismantle it's nuclear weapons, and comply with all UN Security Council Resolutions. Until Israel does that Israel needs to STFU.
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Post by niff on Nov 11, 2013 19:00:08 GMT
God you're naive.
In one breath you claim there is no proof Iran is developing nuclear weapons then in the next you say they should be.
You really believe NK hasn't been sending/selling nuclear technology to Iran? Christ man there are living compounds in Tehran where only NK 'scientists' live. Wake up! What do you think five hundred NK nuclear scientists are doing there? Teaching the Iranians how to make 'kimchi' or how to cook their own children?
Yeah that's right. As soon as Israel dismantles all it's nuclear weapons Iran will stop making their own. Yeah right.
Honest to God I'm beginning to think you must be fourteen years old the way you put up such nonsense. You live in some fantastical world populated by people who have read one very small history book written by some one who gets all their world view from a grade nine social studies book.
Is there a PI function on this site?
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Post by ShivaTD on Nov 11, 2013 19:24:09 GMT
The IAEA has no evidence that Iran has violated the prohibitions in the NPT.
The IAEA does have evidence that Iran has created computer simulations necessary for the construction of a nuclear weapon but that is not prohibited by the NPT.
The IAEA doesn't have any evidence that Iran is enriching uranium to above 20% which is not weapons grade uranium and enrichment to 20% is not prohibited by the NPT.
The IAEA has no evidence that Iran is actively involved in physically manufacturing a nuclear weapon that is prohibited by the NPT.
The IAEA has no evidence that Iran has diverted any enriched uranium for weapons manufacture that would be prohibited by the NPT.
The IAEA has no evidence that Iran has any program to physically produce a nuclear weapon that would be the only thing prohibited by the NPT (excluding the diversion of nuclear weapons materials to a third party to produce a nuclear weapon that there are no claims of Iran ever doing).
I don't argue that Iran should build a nuclear weapon but also accept that the government of any nation has a Right of Self Defense against any potential threat against it and that includes a nuclear threat. The threat of nuclear weapon attack by Israel that is very real can be rationalized into the necessity to produce nuclear weapons just like the threat of a nuclear attack by the USSR rationalized the United State to produce enough nuclear weapons to wipeout every life form on Earth many times over. Being able to rationalize an action does not imply there is wisdom in the actions that can be rationalized.
The best solution for the entire world is to force all rogue nuclear weapons nations to dismantle their nuclear weapons by first ensuring they will face no nuclear weapons threat then imposing economic sanctions to compel compliance in them dismantling any nuclear weapons they might have. Removing the rationalization for nuclear weapons is the first step and then using economic sanctions to prevent the development of nuclear weapons is the second step.
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Post by niff on Nov 12, 2013 16:54:21 GMT
The Arabs in Palestine made some very bad choices based on the hope/promise that the Germans would exterminate every Jew on the planet. Of course the Arabs were too stupid to understand that the minute the last Jew on the planet was exterminated the Germans planned to start on the Arabs. The Germans knew by the mid-thirties the oil potential in the ME Arab countries. I can see it now. The German Nazi General sitting on a carpet in the desert drinking tea 'negotiating' with a bunch of Arabs basically living in the fifteenth century over how much Hitler was willing to pay for a barrel of oil. Would have made a hilarious cartoon.
But the Arabs were wrong and the winners of both wars basically said: "You hate the Jews. Here's what's going to happen. We the victors are going to give the Jews a place to live and just for fun we are going to make that place where you used to live". A historic humiliation for the Arabs.
Tough.
Israel isn't going anywhere. As much as you would wish that will happen. A nuclear Israel will remain forever. Iran will never actually build a nuclear bomb b/c every time they get close Israel will destroy the facilities. I predict here today that Israel will destroy most of Iran's nuclear bomb making facilities before Christmas. We'll see. The UN will send a couple of nasty letters to Israel and Obama and 'The Pickle Lady's Lap Poodle' will be 'otherwise occupied'.
All your: "In 2048 the Jews will be the minority in Israel" is just your wishful thinking. Or maybe you think the Jews are to stupid to have social scientists who are perhaps much more aware than you about the demographic trends in Israel.
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Post by ShivaTD on Nov 12, 2013 17:50:30 GMT
Israel isn't going anywhere. All your: "In 2048 the Jews will be the minority in Israel" is just your wishful thinking. Or maybe you think the Jews are to stupid to have social scientists who are perhaps much more aware than you about the demographic trends in Israel.
Oh yes, the Zionists in Israel are very much aware of the problem and are taking steps related to it. For example:
As noted above the Arabs dramatically outnumber the Jews in the West Bank as well as E Jerusalem where Israel is promoting illegal Israeli immigration in violation of the Geneva Conventions, International Law and in defiance of UN Security Council Resolution 242. The Israeli government is attempting force expulsion of the Arabs from the West Bank and E Jerusalem and that tactic was taken directly from the Nazi playbook.
But wait, that's not all....
Such a proposition can only be achieved by forced sterilization which is also directly out of the Nazi playbook.
So what happens if the Zionist Jews in Israel don't resort to the Nazi tactics of forced expulsion, involuntary sterilization, or the "ultimate" solution of genocide? What if Zionist Jews in Israel don't embrace the Palestinians as an equal part of Israel by abolishing the invidious criteria of religion and ethnic discrimination upon which Israel was founded before the Palestinians take control of Israel based upon the ballot box? What if the Zionist Jews attempt to illegally annex the West Bank and E Jerusalem that it is illegally allowing immigration to?
In short we're likely see a repeat of the years in Palestine that preceded the creation of Israel where Jews will be a minority against a majority of Arabs and the Jews will resort to acts of terrorism and bloodshed in an attempt to keep their nation that is based upon the invidious foundation of religion and ethnic heritage as opposed to subjecting themselves to the principles of democratic rule but the outcome is even worse than that.
Just like the European Zionist Jews went from being the oppressed under the Nazis to the oppressors in Israel it is very likely that so will the Palestinians. When the Palestinians, once in power, are very likely to go from being the oppressed to the oppressors just like the Zionist Jews. They're very likely to also impose a national identity based upon their religion (Islam) and their ethic heritage (Arab) and will oppress all other just like we see in the other Islamic nations.
www.ibtimes.com/israels-demographic-time-bomb-arab-majority-state-213933
There is only one possible solution to the entire problem and it is for Israel to end the foundation of Israel based upon the Hebrew religion and Jewish ethnic heritage and establish a nation that is not founded upon any invidious criteria and it needs to do that well in advance of the Arabs becoming the majority in Israel. Israel as a Zionist nation will eventually fail so the real problem is in preventing it from being replaced by an Islamic Nation as the tyranny of government would simply continue wearing a Muslim turban instead of a Jewish kippah.
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Israel has weapons for defense....proof being in the FACT they've had them a long time and never used them, despite the threats. 
