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Post by ShivaTD on Jul 28, 2013 7:14:13 GMT
Shiva: Why do these Tea party organizations want to hide who the donors are is the question that "conservatives" don't want to address? JP5: Why do liberals and libertarians expect one set of rules for themselves....and different ones for Tea Party organizations? A 501(c)(4) doensn't require providing donor information. You realize that, don't you?
I'm not worried about "penny-ante" donors but big money is changing hands here and they use propaganda, not truth, in presenting a political statement. We, conservatives, liberals, libertarians, and independents, all have a right to know who's providing the major funding these political campaigns.
As noted this doesn't just address "conservatives" or "tea party" groups but all groups. Conservative and tea party groups were not the only 501(c)(4) groups that the IRS investigated and, in fact, according to the IRS they only accounted for 1/3rd of the groups being investigate. That's where this whole House Republican witch hunt breaks down. Groups of all types filing for 501(c)(4) status were being investigates as possible PAC's attempting to hide behind 501(c)(4) status.
We should be able to "track the money" that is being spent on political issues, period.
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Post by JP5 on Jul 28, 2013 13:53:29 GMT
A 501(c)(4) is not a PAC. They are two very different entities with two very different sets of rules to follow and disclosures to be made. And you continue to make the claim that other groups were harrassed in the same way that Tea Party applications were. So, provide the proof!! Where's their complaints of such treatment? Where were they during Congressional testimony to make THEIR cases that they were harassed by the IRS? Don't you think if they existed, that the Democrats sitting on that Hearing wouldn't have brought them forward? Of course they would have. After all, Democrat Senators Max Baucus to Chuck Schumer to Jeanne Shaheen, key Senate Democrats publicly pressured the IRS to target groups that held differing political views and who, in their view, had the temerity to engage in the political process. There is no such proof that anything like that happened to Democrats' applications.
So....once again. Provide proof of the statements you continue to make..... that Democrats were also targeted in a systematic way with a separate set of questioning and rules made espeially for them and in the same manner that Tea Party and conservative citizens were.
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Post by JP5 on Jul 28, 2013 13:58:51 GMT
From the IG; the one who is set up to be the watch dog for the IRS: "Despite the wishful and seemingly desperate thinking of certain media figures, it appears the Internal Revenue Service did indeed purposely flag and target conservative groups applying for tax-exempt status. Contrary to the claims of acting IRS Commissioner Daniel Werfel, the agency wasn’t merely applying “broad” scrutiny to all political groups. The IRS focused specifically on conservatives groups, the Treasury IG told Congress this week.
Inspector General J. Russell George said he stands by the report’s “determination that conservative groups were uniquely singled out for special scrutiny by the tax agency, rebutting Democrats’ contention that liberal groups also were targeted,” the Washington Times reports. “TIGTA concluded that inappropriate criteria were used to identify potential political cases for extra scrutiny — specifically, the criteria listed in our audit report. From our audit work, we did not find evidence that the criteria you identified, labeled ‘progressives,’ were used by the IRS to select potential political cases during the 2010 to 2012 timeframe we audited,” George said."
www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/27/treasury-ig-confirms-irs-scrutiny-wasnt-broad-specifically-targeted-292-conservative-groups-only-six-progressive-groups-flagged/
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Post by JP5 on Aug 14, 2013 14:45:10 GMT
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Post by ShivaTD on Aug 15, 2013 15:41:53 GMT
A more direct question.
Why did Republicans oppose the Disclosure Act that would have required disclosure of all individuals contributing large amounts for political purposes regardless of whether it was related to a PAC or a 501(c) tax exempt entity?
This is the key to my arguments. As a voter we all have the Right to Know who's trying to effect our electorial process regardless of whether they're liberals, conservatives, libertarians, socialists, or whatever. We have a Right to Know as citizens of the United States so why did Republicans oppose a law that would have provided this information to us?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DISCLOSE_Act#House_of_Representatives
While both House and Senate Republicans opposed the Disclosure Act first introduced in 2010 and again in 2012 I would note the problem with House Speaker John Boehner's objections.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DISCLOSE_Act#House_of_Representatives
I can understand objections to specific wording in legislation but John Boehner and the Republicans control the House and all committees in it. They could have introduced their own "Disclosure Act" that closed the loopholes that Boehner was concerned with but that didn't happen. Instead of working with the Democrats to create good legislation that would provide information on political donations that the American people have a right to know the House simply voted the bill down without addressing the problem and fixing it.
They didn't work for the benefit of the American people but instead were merely obstructionists by voting down legislation and ignoring a very valid problem related to political action groups.
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Post by JP5 on Aug 15, 2013 18:34:25 GMT
A more direct question.
Why did Republicans oppose the Disclosure Act that would have required disclosure of all individuals contributing large amounts for political purposes regardless of whether it was related to a PAC or a 501(c) tax exempt entity?
This is the key to my arguments. As a voter we all have the Right to Know who's trying to effect our electorial process regardless of whether they're liberals, conservatives, libertarians, socialists, or whatever. We have a Right to Know as citizens of the United States so why did Republicans oppose a law that would have provided this information to us?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DISCLOSE_Act#House_of_Representatives
While both House and Senate Republicans opposed the Disclosure Act first introduced in 2010 and again in 2012 I would note the problem with House Speaker John Boehner's objections.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DISCLOSE_Act#House_of_Representatives
I can understand objections to specific wording in legislation but John Boehner and the Republicans control the House and all committees in it. They could have introduced their own "Disclosure Act" that closed the loopholes that Boehner was concerned with but that didn't happen. Instead of working with the Democrats to create good legislation that would provide information on political donations that the American people have a right to know the House simply voted the bill down without addressing the problem and fixing it.
They didn't work for the benefit of the American people but instead were merely obstructionists by voting down legislation and ignoring a very valid problem related to political action groups.
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Post by ShivaTD on Aug 16, 2013 0:00:54 GMT
I have repeatedly stated this is a government problem.
Conservative complain that the IRS overly targeted conservative groups and I disagree. My position is that the IRS should have been targeting more groups or organizations involved in political activities!!!
If there was a problem then it wasn't with the targeting too many conservative groups but it could have been with not targeting enough liberal groups. The "Republicans" shouldn't be whining about conservative groups being targeted but instead they should be complaining about liberal groups not also being subjected to the same level of scrutiny. They need to stop whining about the scrutiny of conservative groups and go after the liberal groups.
They could have amended the Disclosure Act in both 2010 and 2012 to close all loopholes for every group involved in political activities. That is my complaint because I Have A Right To Know and our Congress is refusing to take the action necessary to provide me with that information. I'm tire of this "do nothing" Congress that refuses to work together to create good legislation for the People.
I don't personally give a damn who's responsible but when I see legislation introduced by one party that could have been amended as opposed to simply being voted down by the opposition then I blame the opposition for refusing to address the problem.
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Post by JP5 on Aug 16, 2013 4:16:14 GMT
Just INSIST that THIS administration stop using the IRS to target their political enemies. Start with that.
And now we find out that not only the IRS, but the FEC is using "private" emails for OFFICIAL business.....to avoid the public finding out about their law-breaking. When are you going to discuss THIS administration and STOP avoiding the problem here? When are you going to hold THIS administration responsible for their abuse of power? The laws didn't cause them to do that!!!
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Post by ShivaTD on Aug 16, 2013 13:52:40 GMT
According to what I've read only about 1/3rd of those organizations that warranted additional scrutiny were considered to be "conservative" organizations. Who were the other 2/3rds is a relevant question? They obviously weren't "conservative" groups so they had to be either "liberal" or "other" which is appropriate.
Next is the fact that the agents that were actually conducting these additional investigations, from what I've read, have categorically stated that "political" opinion was not a concern and they never addressed any organization based upon it's political opinion but instead addressed it based upon the IRS codes that limit political activity by a 501 organization. It was the level of political involvement that was being investigated and not what the political position of the organization was that they focused on.
As I've stated time and time again there shouldn't be any exemptions where we, the American voters, cannot find out who's using personal wealth to affect the outcome of the electoral process. There should be NO exemptions and that requires a change in the law.
The only statutory law that attempted to address this was the Disclosure Act and I can understand Republicans like John Boehner finding flaws in the legislation where some groups would be required to disclose while others were exempted when both were trying to affect the vote. Fine, that should be identified and then those loopholes closed. That is what Republicans should have done with the Disclosure Act! They didn't do that instead they simply voted it down, twice, allowing the loopholes for 501 tax exempt entities that shouldn't exist in the first place.
We need bipartisan support for a Disclosure Act that eliminates the ability of wealthy individuals to hide their political activities. It is time for both Republicans and Democrats to address their own political party and demand that a bipartisan Disclosure Act be worked out that closes all of the loopholes so that no political entity is able to hide the large donors from scrutiny by the American People.
This is not a "partisan" issue unless the political party believes that they should be able to hide these contributions from public scrutiny which is flat-out wrong and corrupts the electoral process.
It appears that Democrats have twice attempted this while Republicans have twice opposed it. The Democrat's legislation could indeed be flawed but if so then it's the Republican's responsibility to address the flaws and fix it, not just vote it down without offering a better alternative that closes all of the loopholes. That is what I object to.
The Republicans are not fulfilling their responsibility of office that they were elected to fulfill because they are not working for the legislation that the People have a Right to. Instead they are acting as "obstructionists" in preventing the proposed legislation from being improved and then passed into law.
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Post by Professor Peabody on Aug 19, 2013 21:28:10 GMT
The IRS scandal in the U.S. is heating up as we discovered last week in Congressional testimony that Pres. Obama's IRS political appointee, William Wilkins, visited the White just after one of their meetings about targeting Tea Party applications.....and just before new guidelines on targeting these U.S. citizens were made. Using the powerful Internal Revenue Service to go after political enemies is against the law...an abuse of power... and it's what took former president Nixon down.
Also during the testimony, we discovered that a political candidate's tax information was accessed...as well as one of the conservative political donors tax info was accessed. This information was turned over to the Justice Dept (Eric Holder) by the IRS IG, but Holder refused to investigate it any further and blew it off.
"A top IRS official and Obama appointee – who recently has emerged as a key figure in the IRS targeting scandal -- may have met with President Obama just days before his office put out new guidance on how the agency screens conservative groups."
The Obama administration has claimed that Obama knew nothing about any of the targeting and was in no way involved. Obama told the American peope he was not involved and only learned of it when it was reported in the news. We WILL get to the bottom of the issue, however.
Read more: www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/23/did-irs-appointee-meet-with-obama-before-new-screening-guidelines-released/?test=latestnews#ixzz2Zv4eiz6X
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Post by JP5 on Aug 20, 2013 7:44:06 GMT
True about the lack of an AG. He's here for one reason only: to be Obama's puppet. He never does any real investigations about anything. And isn't it funny how he cannot remember a damn thing??  ONLY a bunch of liberals can get away with this kind of thing....and that's because they have the mainstream in their hip pocket. But not to worry......THE COUNTRY IS WATCHING......SILENTLY.....WATCHING......
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ONLY a bunch of liberals can get away with this kind of thing....and that's because they have the mainstream in their hip pocket. But not to worry......THE COUNTRY IS WATCHING......SILENTLY.....WATCHING......