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Post by ShivaTD on Aug 2, 2013 2:04:04 GMT
We need to go back to August, 1998. On August 7th the news carried the story of the US embassy bombings in the East African capitals of Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya. While we all remembered the prior bombing in 1993 in the garage parking lot of the World Trade Center it had been six years since then and that was a relatively distant memory. With the embassy bombings this whole issue of the US being the target of international acts of terrorism was becoming all to real.
So I sat and pondered just what we, the United States, should do about it. How could we stop acts of terrorism against us in the future. Within a couple of weeks I'd formulated my answer to that question and composed the following which was carried as a guest editorial in my local newspaper. That was 15 years ago this month so I thought it would be good to share that editorial to celebrate the anniversary of it's publication.
It's still a few weeks away from the actual anniversary but I felt I should share it not to allow a few comments and opinions on the contents. What has happened since is obvious, at least to me, that we're still headed down the wrong path if we want to end acts of terrorism against us.
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Post by JP5 on Oct 3, 2013 20:18:59 GMT
It's well written; congratulations on getting it published. However, as you probably could guess; I disagree. While we have made some mistakes in which leader of other countries we have supported....as in the Shah of Iran, or more recently The Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, the United States actually saved the world in WWII. Without our coming in to that war with our arms......and even building the best Air Force in the world in the midst of the war, Europe would be quite a different place today. We might be a different country as well. We saved millions of people then and we stood up against the real tyranny of Adolph Hitler and his boot-strapped followers.
I agree that there are skirmishes of the world taking place that we should stay out of. One, because we don't understand all that is going on and two, we just might take the wrong side. Haiti, Grenada....I never understood what the importance of those were.
I come from the belief that we are the good guys; not the bad guys. If you truly believe we engage in tyranny, I'm sorry for you that you think that of your own country. It must be a horrible way to live. We don't cause what happens in the world because some other country; our friends, ask us to help them out on an issue that also happens to be of concern to our own national security. It should be clear to ALL by now....that the Islamic extremists are all about their goal to have an all-Islamic world. The latest mall incident.........they looked for a mall that catered to the "west." They told all Muslims they could leave....and summarily murdered in a firing squad, ALL the westerners and non-Islamic people, and that included little children and a woman who was 8-months pregnant. My God, I cannot believe that in these days ...and with ALL that we know......there are still those who do NOT understand what we are facing. And standing back as a bystander will not keep us or our country safe.
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Post by fred on Oct 3, 2013 21:52:33 GMT
It's well written; congratulations on getting it published. However, as you probably could guess; I disagree. While we have made some mistakes in which leader of other countries we have supported....as in the Shah of Iran,
You do realise, America (and Britain) removed the elected government of Iran and installed the Shah as your puppet dictator, don't you? This set in motion a chain of events that left you with many enemies in that and, because of so many other such crimes, a lot of other countries as well. You also mentioned the Muslim brotherhood. What you don't seem to have picked up is, when the MB rejected American orders to stop Iranian supply ships to Syria, you had them removed. Of course, that little snippet of information is yet to become public but will in time. All external terrorist attack against America or American targets were direct response to American attacks or American interference in other countries.
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Post by Leo on Oct 5, 2013 22:55:03 GMT
I had not expected this simplistic view from one so intelligent as your good self. The United States did not alone save the world in WWII - that was a concerted effort by all the allies. I take nothing away from the bravery of Americans who fought in Europe and the Pacific, but the US did not stand against the tyranny of Adolph Hitler. It helped the UK with supplies, but essentially sat on its hands for the first three years of war - while my countrymen (and women and children) were dying in their thousands from German bombs. It was not until Japan bombed Pearl Harbour, and Hitler formally declared war upon the USA, that Americans entered the fray. And it also needs to be remembered that one of the prices of Lend Lease was the dismantling of America's greatest commercial rival - the British Empire. You alone, did not save millions of people - you fought a war as a legitimate combatant amongst others, the end product of which was the overthrow of a tyranny.
Shiva has expressed views that would greatly benefit all Americans to voice.
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Post by ShivaTD on Oct 10, 2013 14:10:39 GMT
We need to note that the United States did not become militarily involved in WW II to save Europe or to stop the aggression if Japan in Asia. We became involved militarily because Japan attacked Hawaii and Germany declared war on the United States. There is also a common myth in America that the United States was responsible for the military defeat of Nazi Germany when it was actually the Russian military on the Eastern front that defeated Germany (with logistical aid from the US). The invasion of Normandy was a diversionary attack to draw German forces from the Eastern front.
The US involvement in WW II was in defense of our nation based upon acts of war and declarations of war against us by foreign nations. Not a single war the US has been involved since WW II has been related to defending the United States from acts of aggression by other nations. Not one!
It is easy to note the past support of tyrannical regimes such as the Shah of Iran and Bastisa in Cuba as if it's a thing of the past but we continue that foreign policy today. Saudi Arabia is and has been near the top of Human Rights violations for decades as has been Kuwait. Israel is a nation built upon "apartheid" (i.e, the Jewish "race" and religion) and is inherently tyrannical based upon that no differently than the former apartheid state of South Africa or of Nazi Germany's foundation based upon the "Aryan" race. Any nation founded upon race, religion, ethnic heritage, social class, or other invidious criteria is inherently tyrannical.
The United States is also a nuclear weapons nation and any military action we might become involved in represents a nuclear threat and that rationalized nuclear proliferation in the world. Our troops in South Korea sitting on the North Korean border represent a nuclear threat against North Korea created a rationalization for nuclear weapon development by North Korea as a deterrent against a possible US invasion or attack. We're our own worst enemy because we create the rationalization for nuclear proliferation by our military actions.
As I noted in another thread there are barbaric people in the world today and what is lacking is any nation setting an example for those people to learn from. The United States should be "that nation" because the foundation of our nation was based upon the equality of all people (even though we need to work on that) and the individual rights of the person without any invidious criteria.
The world needs an example but we don't have one and the United States could and should be that example. We, the United States, are the most "powerful nation" in the world but we are not the "greatest nation" in the world and that is where I find the problem. Being the "greatest nation" is far more important than being the most "powerful nation" IMHO. Most of the world respected the United States when were the "greatest nation" but that was before we became the "most powerful nation" and sadly too many today don't understand that simple fact.
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Post by ShivaTD on Oct 10, 2013 14:22:08 GMT
It's well written; congratulations on getting it published. However, as you probably could guess; I disagree. While we have made some mistakes in which leader of other countries we have supported....as in the Shah of Iran,
All external terrorist attack against America or American targets were direct response to American attacks or American interference in other countries. While acts of terrorism can never be justified it is undeniably true that US involvement in the affairs of other nations has provided the rationalization for terrorist attacks against us. Osama bin Ladin, the arch enemy of the United States, once expressed the fact that it was the US remaining in Saudi Arabia after the Gulf War to militarily intervene in the sovereign affairs of Iraq that "justified" the al Qaeda attacks against the United States in 1993, 1998, 2000, and 2001. He wasn't necessarily opposed to the US mission in the Gulf War to remove Iraq from Kuwait but warned beforehand that the US would not leave Saudi Arabia after that was accomplished and he was right. We didn't leave when we should have.
Personally I opposed the US involvement in the Gulf War because the combined forces of the nations in the region that included Saudi Arabia, Iran, Jordan and Syria could have militarily dealt with Iraq along with the economic sanctions imposed by the United Nations. Remember that Iraq couldn't even defeat Iran in a prolonged war and Iran had a very good reason to oppose the invasion of Kuwait by Iraq. Iran and Saudi Arabia alone could have defeated Iraq in 1991.
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Post by JP5 on Oct 10, 2013 16:27:03 GMT
It's well written; congratulations on getting it published. However, as you probably could guess; I disagree. While we have made some mistakes in which leader of other countries we have supported....as in the Shah of Iran,
You do realise, America (and Britain) removed the elected government of Iran and installed the Shah as your puppet dictator, don't you? This set in motion a chain of events that left you with many enemies in that and, because of so many other such crimes, a lot of other countries as well. You also mentioned the Muslim brotherhood. What you don't seem to have picked up is, when the MB rejected American orders to stop Iranian supply ships to Syria, you had them removed. Of course, that little snippet of information is yet to become public but will in time. All external terrorist attack against America or American targets were direct response to American attacks or American interference in other countries. Yeah.....just like Hitler, eh? Oh now....he was taking over all of Europe, right? And we, the U.S., came in and saved them. We didn't cause Hitler. It wasn't the U.S. who let him fester until it was almost too late! And yet we came to Europe's defense......and buried a WHOLE LOT of our young men on your shores as a result. Most right-thinking people KNOW this. Blaming America is all-too-often an excuse for one's own failing's to deal with a situation. A simple "thank you" would be the more gracious way to go.
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Post by JP5 on Oct 10, 2013 16:42:28 GMT
I had not expected this simplistic view from one so intelligent as your good self. The United States did not alone save the world in WWII - that was a concerted effort by all the allies. I take nothing away from the bravery of Americans who fought in Europe and the Pacific, but the US did not stand against the tyranny of Adolph Hitler. It helped the UK with supplies, but essentially sat on its hands for the first three years of war - while my countrymen (and women and children) were dying in their thousands from German bombs. It was not until Japan bombed Pearl Harbour, and Hitler formally declared war upon the USA, that Americans entered the fray. And it also needs to be remembered that one of the prices of Lend Lease was the dismantling of America's greatest commercial rival - the British Empire. You alone, did not save millions of people - you fought a war as a legitimate combatant amongst others, the end product of which was the overthrow of a tyranny.
Shiva has expressed views that would greatly benefit all Americans to voice.
First of all......I never used the word "alone" anywhere. You've tried to purposefully set up a strawman. And had we got in it earlier......some of the very same people that shares YOUR views would be then blaming the U.S. claiming we caused it all to escalate; that you had it all under control and that we should have never come in and butted our noses into YOUR business.
And yes, I can see that you applaud Shiva's views.....which are to belittle and castigate his own country at every chance. I guess trying to knock down America.....even coming from a few inside America......makes for great fodder for some. I, for one, am very proud of my country.....just as you are yours. My ancestry.....many of them coming from England, Scotland, France, and Germany going back to the 1600's......have fought in EVERY single war the U.S. has ever been involved in......to protect our country and it's citizens....and often to help out our friends across the world. Have other countries helped us at times? You bet. France, particular, helped us win our Independence from England. And over the years the U.S. and Britain are great friends and have been engaged together in many conflicts for the purposes of helping.
It was the thread's OP that I was addressing.....which was very critical of the U.S. Sorry, if you think my taking up for my own country is something I should be ashamed of.....because I'm not.
And BTW, Shiva states in his OP that it is the U.S. (his own country) who is tyrannical. Do you agree with that statement? And.......do you then agree that your own country is tyrannical and that is the cause for terrorists attacks YOU have had inside YOUR country? Do you also agree with him that "wisdom" and "not weapons" would be the way to go in fighting terrorism?
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Post by fred on Oct 10, 2013 23:29:23 GMT
You do realise, America (and Britain) removed the elected government of Iran and installed the Shah as your puppet dictator, don't you? This set in motion a chain of events that left you with many enemies in that and, because of so many other such crimes, a lot of other countries as well. You also mentioned the Muslim brotherhood. What you don't seem to have picked up is, when the MB rejected American orders to stop Iranian supply ships to Syria, you had them removed. Of course, that little snippet of information is yet to become public but will in time. All external terrorist attack against America or American targets were direct response to American attacks or American interference in other countries. Yeah.....just like Hitler, eh? Oh now....he was taking over all of Europe, right? And we, the U.S., came in and saved them. We didn't cause Hitler. It wasn't the U.S. who let him fester until it was almost too late! And yet we came to Europe's defense......and buried a WHOLE LOT of our young men on your shores as a result. Most right-thinking people KNOW this. Blaming America is all-too-often an excuse for one's own failing's to deal with a situation. A simple "thank you" would be the more gracious way to go. Thank you.... for installing a dictator and starting a chain of events that led to the extremist Iranian government we see at the moment. On behalf of the American arms industry, I thank you from the bottom of my fart.
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Post by fred on Oct 10, 2013 23:33:18 GMT
All external terrorist attack against America or American targets were direct response to American attacks or American interference in other countries. While acts of terrorism can never be justified it is undeniably true that US involvement in the affairs of other nations has provided the rationalization for terrorist attacks against us. Osama bin Ladin, the arch enemy of the United States, once expressed the fact that it was the US remaining in Saudi Arabia after the Gulf War to militarily intervene in the sovereign affairs of Iraq that "justified" the al Qaeda attacks against the United States in 1993, 1998, 2000, and 2001. He wasn't necessarily opposed to the US mission in the Gulf War to remove Iraq from Kuwait but warned beforehand that the US would not leave Saudi Arabia after that was accomplished and he was right. We didn't leave when we should have.
Personally I opposed the US involvement in the Gulf War because the combined forces of the nations in the region that included Saudi Arabia, Iran, Jordan and Syria could have militarily dealt with Iraq along with the economic sanctions imposed by the United Nations. Remember that Iraq couldn't even defeat Iran in a prolonged war and Iran had a very good reason to oppose the invasion of Kuwait by Iraq. Iran and Saudi Arabia alone could have defeated Iraq in 1991.
I have no problem with the first gulf war or the no fly zone. I have a big problem with the second gulf war and America's massive support of Israel. The latter started as a proxy war against the USSR but has translated into the reason used for terrorist attacks against the USA. I have no problem with American military targets being hit but I strongly condemn any and all attacks on civilians......by both sides.
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Post by africanhope on Oct 11, 2013 5:02:25 GMT
JP. I see you still stick to your WWII story, a version which is wrong. Shiva did mention it above, but it is worth a repeat. the USA did not join the war. Japan attacked and then Germany declared war on the USA. Let me repeat that one, Germany declared war against the USA, NOT the other way around. So many countries find this 'USA came and saved Europe' rhetoric insulting. I most certainly do. My country paid a very high price. We declared war on the AXIS nations, and send many of our young men to die, including some of my family members. Because of feelings in this country, there was many people against the war, and a rebellion broke out. The shortages caused by our supporting the war led to an unhappy populace voting in the Nationalist Party after the war leading to Apartheid. And lot of this is becaused we joined the war, and helped win it.
But back to the point. I am a form believer that a reformed UN should be leading the charge in maintaining peace in the world. If the whole world says 'don't invade this country' the USA should learn to listen and say, hey, maybe you are right. Maybe we wouldn't, maybe it is wrong from us. Quite often the US comes across as arrogant, in basically telling the world that the world is wrong the USA knows best.
Another problem is that the USA is inconsistent in it's foreign policy. You bring democracy to some countries, but not others. You help people whose leaders are killing their own people, in some countries, but not others. You sanction and threaten some countries because of illegal nuclear arms, but are best buds with other countries with illegal These inconsistencies puts the US foreign intervention under a huge cloud. This is why people often question US motives.
And no one here was being anti-American JP. There is nothing anti-American about Americans criticising their own country, as a matter of fact, it is one of the most patriotic things a citizen can do. And people like myself, and Leo are not anti-American. I am anti-some-of-America's-foreign-policies. As is my right, as person living in this world, and who is often affected by American foreign policy. To criticise American policy is not do hate America, it is just that - to criticise American policy.
And you should measure your policy, and more so you intervention policy, by it's success. And lets have a look - Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Cuba, Vietnam, there are many examples of where your interventionist policies failed you and the world. A success is the Balcan states, but then, that was a NATO/UN mission, and actually proves my point.
AH
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Post by ShivaTD on Oct 11, 2013 5:51:49 GMT
I have no problem with the first gulf war or the no fly zone. I have a big problem with the second gulf war and America's massive support of Israel. The latter started as a proxy war against the USSR but has translated into the reason used for terrorist attacks against the USA. I have no problem with American military targets being hit but I strongly condemn any and all attacks on civilians......by both sides. Outside of the fact that the United Nation didn't require the United States to remove Iraq from Kuwait there are some fundamental problem fundamental problems with the US involvement in the Gulf War from an "American" perspective.
First of all it was a conflict between tyrannical nations. Iraq, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia were all tyrannical nations and the United States involvement represented support of tyranny. The United States should not be supporting tyrannical regimes but that is exactly what we did.
Few seem to understand what motivated former President George GW Bush to get the United States involved. It wasn't about fighting tyranny, as noted above, it wasn't that Iraq presented any threat to the world, and it wasn't about oil. It was because the royal families of Kuwait and Saudi Arabia were close personal friends and former business associates of our president. A president should never use the US military because of personal friendships but that was the real reason behind our involvement. Had Bush looked upon the royal families of Kuwait and Saudi Arabia as tyrants, which they unquestionably were, then the US had no reason whatsoever to become involved.
The Kuwaiti Royal Family paid tens of billions of dollars (that they had stolen from the Kuwaiti People) to hire the US military as a mercenary force to fight on it's behalf. The US military should not be "for sale" to anyone and it's sole purpose is to defend the United States against attacks and invasions. The United States has not been attacked or invaded since WW II.
After the military action to remove Iraq from Kuwait the UN Charter was violated repeatedly.
The United Nations did authorize the use of military force to remove Iraq from Kuwait but that was all the UN Security Council authorized. Any threat of the use of force or the use of force against the territorial or political integrity of a nation is expressly prohibited by Article II Section 4 of the UN Charter. The "no-fly zones" and "over-flights and attacks by military forces" after the Gulf War directly violated the UN Charter.
The USSR collapsed in 1989 and a "proxy war" did not exist in the 1990's. Yes, the ongoing military conflict by the US against Iraq after the Gulf War and the US support for Israel that is a tyrannical nation founded upon religious/racial apartheid is a primary cause of the Islamic terrorist threat against the United States. We've "picked sides" in a war of opposing forms of tyranny which is a huge mistake on our part. The United States should not support tyranny of any kind by any nation.
There are no legitimate "military" targets for the United States to attack with one minor exception. Once again, according to the United States Constitution the purpose of the US military is to provide for the defenses of the United States from invasions or attacks by foreign nations. Acts of terrorism by criminal organizations (e.g. al Qaeda) are criminal acts and not acts of war.
The one minor exception is that the US Navy has a responsibility to address acts of piracy on the high seas as specified in Article I Section 8 but that obligation only relates to US flagged commercial vessels. One major problem I see is that the US has 11 carrier task forces patrolling the oceans and seas of the world but they're not designed for addressing pirates. They're designed for wars against nations and not to fight small pirate ships.
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Post by Leo on Oct 11, 2013 14:26:14 GMT
Oct 11, 2013 3:42:28 GMT 11 JP5 said: My apologies if I have assumed where I should not have. But I have discussed this matter before with Americans who take the view that it was the USA which won WW2, and your use of the term 'we' in the national sense prompted the assumption.
But you are not entirely innocent of assumptions yourself - as evinced by your lumping me in with some indeterminate demographic who engage in a certain group-think. Well, just so we are clear upon the matter - I am not 'very proud of my country'. Not unlike most people, I have a certain affection for my society and the way in which it operates. Also, like most people, I find familiarity with its value systems and cultural mores comfortable, and of course, I am fond of those of my countrymen whom I regards as friends. So I would have little hesitation in defending my society were it under attack, or under threat of invasion - by military means if necessary.
But, and it is a big 'but', unlike an alarming number of Americans, I do not consider it pre-eminent in all things, or 'the best country in the world'. It has its strengths and weaknesses like every other society, and I do not consider it 'unpatriotic' to critice those weaknesses publicly - quite the opposite, as a matter of fact. Which is why I applaud what Shiva wrote. It takes a big man to be self-critical.
The OP was indeed critical of certain aspects of US foreign policy, and gave reasons for that criticism - which is as it should be. Depending upon your value systems, and objectivity, you may or may not agree with those criticisms - that is your prerogative. But there is nothing sacrosanct about the USA (or Great Britain for that matter,) and it is neither blasphemy nor high treason to point to its shortcomings - particularly when those shortcomings have been responsible for the deaths of millions of people during the course of the past century.
Defending your country's reputation against defamation is both understandable and commendable, but my very slight familiarity with the law informs me that - in order for defamation to have taken place, the allegations have to be demonstrably untrue. I do not believe Shiva has defamed his nation by means of false allegations.
I have only ever visited the USA, and that was about five years ago, so I do not know enough about its governance and culture to come to an informed conclusion about whether it operates as a tyranny, or otherwise.
Tyranny is a very subjective term, and a bit like 'Fascism', is used altogether too liberally. The English colonials who committed high treason in 1776, regarded having to pay taxes they had not personally determined, as 'tyranny' - most sensible people would not.
As for my own country, its government has made impositions in its recent history which many considered tyrannical - particularly during the reign of Attila the Hen. And more recently, when the lunatic Blair insisted upon invading Iraq, against the wishes of the civilised world, and against the express wishes of the British population.
So yes, there are consequences, both short and long term, for our actions as individuals, and our actions as nations. Yes, I most certainly agree that wisdom is far more effective than military might in resolving what we see as international problems.
If there is one thing that hundreds of years of empire teaches a nation, it is this - no matter how powerful you are - a man in a loincloth can get his way with an empire so large the sun always shone on some part of it. Tomahawk missiles, unmanned drones, and carrier fleets can easily crush human bodies - especially when they are unprotected as they are in poverty ridden societies - but they do little to crush the spirit of rebellion. Every attack you, or we, make from the safety of an armoured vehicle, or from 5,000 metres in the sky, and every shattered body of a child, (which we callously dismiss with that contemptible term 'collateral damage',) is a more effective recruiting tool than any stentorian sar-major.
So, did we deserve the attacks on the WTC, and the London Underground? Certainly not - no innocent non-combatants deserve to be butchered (no matter how seemingly urgent the cause). But did we contribute to the situations which prompted those desperately wicked acts? We sure did!
The piper will be paid one way or another, and where there is no prospect of justice - there will always be violence. So wave your flags, and be as proud as you like - but be prepared to accept the consequences of hubris.
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Post by ShivaTD on Oct 11, 2013 16:46:43 GMT
First and foremost I have never condemned the ideals upon which America was founded. I've condemned the actions of the politicians that violated the ideals upon which America was founded. We should be critical of the politicians and condemn their actions that violated the ideals upon which our nation was founded.
My ancestors (on my mother's side) also immigrated to America before the American Revolution and my mother is a DAR and I'm an SAR. Our family did fight in the American Revolution, the War of 1812, the Civil War on the Union Side (as well as some "cousin" that fought for the rebellion), WW I and WW II.
We haven't had a single war since WW II that was in defense of the United States although I served in Vietnam where the United States was tyrannical in it's actions. Remember it was with the US support that a democratic vote on the unification of Vietnam after the French withdrawal didn't take place as it should have according to the UN peace plan. Over 2.5 million innocent Vietnamese died because of the Vietnam War that violated the Right of Sovereignty of the Vietnamese People. The violation of the Rights of the People is an act of tyranny.
The US has gone to war on behalf of our "friends" but all to often those "friends" were tyrants. The Gulf War pitted the tyrannical regimes of Saudi Arabia and Kuwait against the tyrannical regime of Iraq. Our involvement on either side represented our support for tyranny because it was a regional conflict between tyrants.
We talk about terrorism which is the commission of an act that instill "terror" in others for political purposes. Nothing is more terrifying than an M1-A1 Abrams tank coming down the street with it's gun pointed at you. Nothing is more terrifying than being bombed from the sky. The US military is the most terrifying force on the planet and should only be used in direct defense against attacks and/or invasions of the United States.
We also need to clear up a misconception of the French coming to the aid of the United States. The United States was already an independent government when the French came to our aid. France did not become directly involved until 1778 a full two years after the United States declared Independence from England and established a government. Many also don't know that it was the pressure France placed on the British fleet around the world that was the greatest contribution to the American Revolution. Yes, a small French fleet did arrive in time at Yorktown (mostly to evade the hurricane season in the Caribbean) that blocked the British from resupplying or evacuating the British that ended the war but that was minor compared to the impact that the French had in making the American Revolution a global war for the British.
There is a huge difference between one nation going to the assistance of another already established government which is what happened during the American Revolution and a nation invading another nation, removing the existing government with military force, and replacing it with a new government such as we did in Iraq and Afghanistan. The first supports the Sovereignty of the People of a Nation while the second violates their Sovereignty. Violating the Right of Sovereignty of the People is an act of tyranny.
No one believes more in the ideals upon which the United States was founded and no one is more critical of politicians that violate these ideals than I am. I don't excuse politicians that violate the ideals of America but many do.
On a final note the US was not directly responsible for the rise of Hitler to power. The Treaty of Versailles, that the US refused to agree to, is credited with that. On the flip side it was the US becoming involved when there was fundamentally a stalemate between the Germans and the French/British where a treaty that was fair to both sides of the conflict would have resulted that lead to the overwhelming defeat of Germany that allowed the Treaty of Versailles to exist. As also noted the US did not go to war against Germany in WW II to "save the British, French, or stop the Holocaust" but instead we went to war because Germany declared war on the United States. There is no doubt that FDR wanted to involve the US in the war against Germany but lacking a declaration of war by Germany the US probably wouldn't have become involved in Europe. Speculative of course but most Americans were opposed to any US involvement in the European war. And it was the USSR, with logistical help from the US, that fought all of the major battles of WW II that lead to the defeat of Germany. That is a military fact that isn't really taught in US schools.
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Post by ShivaTD on Oct 11, 2013 17:17:06 GMT
I would point out that my Op-Ed from 1998 was based upon the ideals upon which America was founded. It would support US military response to an act of aggression by a foreign nation against the United State such as occurred in WW II when Japan attacked the United States and Germany declared war against us. It condemns acts of aggression that the US has committed for political purposes since WW II.
The US Constitution, in Article I Section 8, specifically establishes that one of the reasons for taxation is for the US government to provide for the "common Defence" of the United States. It doesn't provide authorization for the US to tax the American People to defend Japan, Germany, or to invade other countries that have not committed an act of aggression against the United States. The US military is supposed to be a "defensive" force to prevent or defend against acts of aggression against the United States and not an "offensive" force to be used to commit acts of aggression for political reasons. Other nations are responsible for their own self-defense and other people are responsible for the governments they live under, not the US taxpayer.
Strange how some that say they believe in a conservative interpretation of the US Constitution can take the phase in Article I Section 8 that only provides the authority to tax for the defense of the United States (as well as to provide for the general Welfare of the United States) an translate that into a power to attack other nations in wars of aggression by the United States for political purposes.
The underlying principal of my Op-Ed is that the United States should stand as a shining example of what a government should be based upon our ideals. We're not doing that today and it has caused hatred and condemnation of the United States around the world. Even Osama bin Ladin, our arch enemy in for years related to terrorism, condemned the United States for our hypocrisy when it comes to the very ideals upon which America was founded. Bin Ladin bluntly stated that there wouldn't have been a terrorist threat against the United States if we actually abided by our ideals in our actions.
Far from being opposed to the ideals of America my Op-Ed supports and embraces them. It represents what America "should be" as opposed to what America "is" today.
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