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Post by JP5 on Aug 18, 2013 17:24:32 GMT
I don't blame Egyptians for being angry at the United States. With baffoons like Obama, McCain, and Lindsey Graham injecting themselves into the situation, wrongly........they have a right to be angry at us. Muslim Brotherhood and the extremists, including Al Qaeda who support them are killing Christians, burning their churches and trying to FORCE Egypt into being an Islamic nation. Morsi wanted an "all Islamic" Middle East and set out on that course soon after he was elected. For any Egyptians on here, let it be known that MANY Americans (I think MOST) are on YOUR side of trying to rid yourselves of the MB and the terrorist organizations they fund and support. We support you. And we know that these were NOT "unarmed protests" as portrayed by some in our liberal media.
"On their current trip to Cairo, Senators John McCain (R-Ariz.) and Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), two of President Barack Obama’s most persistent critics on everything in foreign policy from Syria to Benghazi, have found common cause with him at last.
All three fear that the anti-American (and generally anti-human) Muslim Brotherhood (MB), whom they mistakenly see as “moderate,” will disappear from the halls of power in Egypt, our most important Arab ally. They also evidently worry that the MB’s leading figures, such as now-deposed (and arrested) President Mohamed Morsi—who had awarded himself powers greater than any previous ruler in Egypt’s history—will not be free to plot a return to power in an ancient nation that he had nearly destroyed in only one year.
Echoing earlier White House warnings, the two senior senators suggested that we may cut off our $1.6 billion in annual (mainly military) aid, the very tie that binds our countries together, as it has for more than thirty preciously peaceful years. Not to comply with their demands, McCain and Graham said August 6, would be—as Graham put it--a “huge mistake.”
With their current stance on Egypt, President Obama, Sens. John McCain and Lindsay Graham are risking one of America’s most crucial alliances.
The White House, McCain and Graham have warned that the aid may be cut if the MB’s leaders are not freed from detention—they have been under arrest since President Mohammed Morsi was overthrown July 3 by the military in response to the historically huge popular demonstrations at the end of June. (Morsi has since been charged for having been part of a 2011 prison break alleged to have been carried out by Hamas.)
Read more: www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/08/08/obama-mccain-and-graham-make-huge-mistake-in-egypt/?intcmp=obnetwork#ixzz2cLG83zR7
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Post by ShivaTD on Aug 19, 2013 14:20:24 GMT
Perhaps we should have been following Jefferson's advice for the last 60+ years.
No Korean War, No Vietnam War, No involvement in Middle East wars, many tens of thousands of US soldiers alive with their families, hundreds of thousands not suffering from wounds both physical and mental, no terrorist threat against the United States today, no national debt, and lower taxes while still being able to provide for the needs of those in poverty.
Ah.... just to dream about it......
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Post by JP5 on Aug 19, 2013 22:25:12 GMT
Just stay out of it and let them handle their own affairs. They've got a huge problem with the Muslim Brotherhood and the terrorists groups they support. Ethnic and religious cleansing is being done by these extremists/terrorists groups and they need to come down hard on it in order to get it stopped. BTW, a judge has let Mubarak out of his prison that the MB put him in.....under false charges. I'm afraid our administration has made an enemy of what was the one country in the ME (not counting Israel) that we always had a good relationship with.
"Across Egypt, at least 60 churches have been targeted, along with Christian schools, homes, businesses and even an orphanage, according to conservative estimates. In the areas of Minya, Beni Suef, Fayoum and Assiut, Christian homes and businesses have received leaflets warning them to leave or face reprisals by Islamists, Christians said.
Christian homes and businesses in Minya have reportedly been marked with black X's to single them out for attack.
Another pastor in the area shares his concerns. "We live in our church, so when someone attacks out congregation, it's as if our house is being attacked," said Pastor John Amin of the Meni Mazar church in published remarks.".
"Our children are afraid," he added.
As violence envelops Egypt, Christians are paying a heavy price with scores of their most sacred buildings and monuments being systematically destroyed by members of the Muslim Brotherhood in what one Coptic leader called an attempt at ethnic cleansing
Read more: www.foxnews.com/world/2013/08/19/muslim-brotherhood-wages-war-on-christians/#ixzz2cSKvqXMH
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Post by ShivaTD on Aug 20, 2013 11:16:02 GMT
Here is a simple fact. Egypt belongs to the Egyptians and is not under the jurisdiction of the United States.
We can certainly identify atrocities being committed in foreign countries but those are internal problems that the citizens of those countries have a duty to address. It is for the citizens of a country to identify their own problems and to address them and no other country has a right to intervene.
If we're outraged over the atrocities then we can choose to not be involved in those countries, and can even call upon other nations to not be involved with those countries, but cannot become directly involved. We can, for example, cut off all international trade (i.e. impose economic sanctions), just as we might boycott an enterprise in the United States where we disagree with their activities, but we can't become directly involved in that which is the responsibility of the citizens of that nation to address.
We need to remember that members of the Muslim Brotherhood are citizens of Egypt and we're not. They have a right to political involvement in the affairs of Egypt and we don't. They might have elements that commit atrocities and we can condemn that in our statements but they are still citizens of Egypt and have the right to be involved in politics in Egypt just as the Taliban has a right as citizens of Afghanistan to be involved in the internal affairs of Afghanistan while the United States has no right to be there at all.
By analogy we can cite the KKK in the United States which is historically the foremost terrorist organization in the United States. It still has a right to exist and to be politically involved even though it was founded upon acts of terrorism.
So it is correct for us to condemn acts of tyranny occurring in other nations but we have no right to intervene directly in the affairs of those nations. We can cut them off from trade, we can isolate them, and we can address the tyranny through diplomatic channels but we have no right or duty to directly intervene in the problems that only the citizens of that nation have a right and a duty to address.
It is also interesting that we can condemn the acts of tyranny in Egypt where "Christians" are persecuted but manage to ignore the acts of tyranny by Israel where thousands of innocent Muslims have been targeted and murdered by the Israeli military or the acts of tyranny by the Royal Family of Saud in Saudi Arabia that has been near the top of the chart in the violations of the civil rights of the Saudi People for decades. We seem to be very hypocritical when it comes to the tyranny of government with our policy of the "Enemy of my enemy is my friend" regardless of how tyrannical that government might be. Mubarak was a tyrant just like Batista was a tyrant and the Shah of Iran was a tyrant and we've supported all of these tyrants. We even supported Saddam for many years. If we're going to oppose tyranny then at least we shouldn't be hypocrites in our opposition to tyranny but we are.
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Post by dangermouse on Aug 21, 2013 1:02:24 GMT
You can kind of feel sorry for western politicians regarding Egypt. The Egyptian army, somewhat brutally, is beating back the advance of Islamism as they are paid by the US to do, while the Islamist Egyptian voters are fighting for democracy!
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Post by ShivaTD on Aug 21, 2013 9:06:00 GMT
One fact is sadly evident and that is that "Western" powers don't give a damn about democracy and haven't going back decades. Just yesterday further information was released about the CIA's role in overthrowing the Iranian democracy in 1953 to install Shah Reza Pahlavi, a brutally tyrannical dictator, that ruled until the Iranian revolution in 1979.
abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/documents-detail-cias-role-1953-coup-iran-20017948
The United States has a poor record when it comes to concerns about the people of foreign nations where it has eagerly supported tyrannical regimes that are "friendly" to American interests. Anyone that believes otherwise is sadly ignorant of American history.
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Post by JP5 on Aug 22, 2013 15:24:09 GMT
If one gives another country $1billion each year, then yes, they have a say in what's going on. Otherwise, we keep our money at home.
I find it rather odd that anyone would try to compare Israel to these Islamic terrorists. Israel tries to protect itself from the surrounding threats that attack them and their people almost daily. We would too, if it were us. In fact, we do.
I think Obama played a part in unseating Mubarak and now find himself on the wrong side of what the people of Egypt want. Now, they are not even taking his calls......because he's so badly screwed everything up.
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Post by ShivaTD on Aug 23, 2013 16:19:26 GMT
As I recall the Arab nations (lead by Saudi Arabia) give Egypt tens times as much money as the US government and have much more influence than the United States based upon "dollars" being given to Egypt.
BTW think about how much good the same money would help Americans that are in need of financial help would provide if we weren't giving it away to other nations. Why do we give money to foreign countries when Americans are going hungry here?
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Post by ShivaTD on Aug 23, 2013 16:31:01 GMT
Of note I raised the issue of Israel because Israel is a rogue nation that refuses to comply with international law, UN Security Council Resolutions, and has nuclear weapons that are propagating nuclear proliferation in the Middle East. Since it's founding it has violated the Rights of the non-Jewish population in Palestine and continues those violations today.
This is not an expression of support for the Palestinians that will also establish a tyrannical nation at some point in the future. Any nation based upon race, religion, ethnic heritage, or other invidious criteria is inherently tyrannical and Israel is no exception to this. It is a tyrannical nation as are all of the Middle East nations including Egypt.
Why the US supports tyranny is a question worthy of answering.
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Post by albert on Sept 14, 2013 7:44:43 GMT
Obama's feckless policies have united the Egyptian people in hatred for all things American.
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Post by fred on Sept 14, 2013 10:29:37 GMT
Perhaps we should have been following Jefferson's advice for the last 60+ years.
No Korean War, No Vietnam War, No involvement in Middle East wars, many tens of thousands of US soldiers alive with their families, hundreds of thousands not suffering from wounds both physical and mental, no terrorist threat against the United States today, no national debt, and lower taxes while still being able to provide for the needs of those in poverty.
Ah.... just to dream about it......
That is probably one of the best posts I've read on any forum. Sadly, totally wasted because cash and political ideals rule all. |
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Post by fred on Sept 14, 2013 10:34:37 GMT
Obama's feckless policies have united the Egyptian people in hatred for all things American. Does that exclude keeping a dictator in power for years? You aren't looking at anything past your hatred of Obama. |
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