|
|
Post by maniacalhamster on Sept 30, 2013 5:51:57 GMT
It is a big lie and the republican army are the ones either lieing or being brain washed.. universal health care should be your right... this watered down obamacare version is useless... In Canada the insurance companies cannot tell you how much health care you get... why would you want to be the last civilized country to hang on to corporate greed. depends on how urgent it is. i've had MRI given to me within the week. recently i needed an cardioecogram and they asked me when it was convenient for me. went the next day. There are always ways to get things done quickly. and it's a falsehood that people have wait for things too long. some surveys are skewed. My daughter in law got a 50 thousand dollar defibrillator put in right after she died...well they put her in a coma and waited till she was stabilized.. that was last year...this year she had a 45 thousand dollar stomach thing done where they by pass stuff and cut the stomach down to like she eats two tablespoons full and she is full.. there are so many people in my family that have had the best of care ,and long term care... when it's an emergency it's done..no worries as to the cost..or if the insurance company is going to pull off some hoaky scam that says you don;t qualify.. everyone gets fixed... i realize America lives in fear and fear mongering like fox news will skew you with facts... lol how long for a hip replacement....too funny... now go dig up a link to prove me all wrong...lol |
|
|
|
Post by ShivaTD on Sept 30, 2013 11:29:30 GMT
It is a big lie and the republican army are the ones either lieing or being brain washed.. universal health care should be your right... this watered down obamacare version is useless... In Canada the insurance companies cannot tell you how much health care you get... why would you want to be the last civilized country to hang on to corporate greed.
With that said as a moral and compassionate society we do have an obligation to ensure that those that require medical services but can't afford them are provided with those services. Health care is not a Right but it is a Moral Obligation and there is a difference between the two.
Here is the problem with those that want to repeal Obamacare.
Those with pre-existing conditions that can't afford the medical services, can't afford the insurance, and/or are denied coverage will not receive the necessary medical services they require.
Those that simply can't afford health care services will either have to use very expensive "emergency room" services that are inadequate in treating non-emergency medical problems or will simply not receive the medical services they require.
Obamacare was not the best solution to the above problems but it did address and provide a solution to them. Republicans simply want to repeal Obamacare that simply reinstates the problem that existed before Obamacare.
The problem cannot be ignored by a moral and compassionate society but that is exactly what "Tea Party" Republicans propose in their attempts to repeal Obamacare as opposed to offering legislation to replace it with something better.
House Republicans have offered no legislative solution to ensure that every person that requires health care services but that cannot afford them will receive those medical services. They haven't offered any solution that is better than Obamacare.
|
|
|
|
Post by iolo on Sept 30, 2013 12:39:43 GMT
Sorry but no one has a Right to require someone else to pay for their health care.
If the Republicans insist on forcing people to be born, clearly they are responsible for all their expenses throughout life, surely?
|
|
|
|
Post by JP5 on Sept 30, 2013 14:39:03 GMT
Sorry but no one has a Right to require someone else to pay for their health care.
If the Republicans insist on forcing people to be born, clearly they are responsible for all their expenses throughout life, surely? Abortion has been legal since 1973. And since then, every woman who wants one could get it. And yet, there is STILL poverty! So, IF they are still in poverty....you might want to take a closer look at the liberal government policies that are keeping then there. |
|
|
|
Post by JP5 on Sept 30, 2013 14:45:50 GMT
In Canada, how long is your wait to see a specialist regarding a hip replacement? depends on how urgent it is. i've had MRI given to me within the week. recently i needed an cardioecogram and they asked me when it was convenient for me. went the next day. There are always ways to get things done quickly. and it's a falsehood that people have wait for things too long. some surveys are skewed. My daughter in law got a 50 thousand dollar defibrillator put in right after she died...well they put her in a coma and waited till she was stabilized.. that was last year...this year she had a 45 thousand dollar stomach thing done where they by pass stuff and cut the stomach down to like she eats two tablespoons full and she is full.. there are so many people in my family that have had the best of care ,and long term care... when it's an emergency it's done..no worries as to the cost..or if the insurance company is going to pull off some hoaky scam that says you don;t qualify.. everyone gets fixed... i realize America lives in fear and fear mongering like fox news will skew you with facts... lol how long for a hip replacement....too funny... now go dig up a link to prove me all wrong...lol |
|
|
|
Post by iolo on Sept 30, 2013 16:32:35 GMT
Sorry but no one has a Right to require someone else to pay for their health care.
If the Republicans insist on forcing people to be born, clearly they are responsible for all their expenses throughout life, surely? Abortion has been legal since 1973. And since then, every woman who wants one could get it. And yet, there is STILL poverty! So, IF they are still in poverty....you might want to take a closer look at the liberal government policies that are keeping then there. Something to do with the 1% who are stealing everything not nailed down, probably. They could pay for everybody to live well, come to think of it. |
|
|
|
Post by maniacalhamster on Sept 30, 2013 16:44:53 GMT
It is a big lie and the republican army are the ones either lieing or being brain washed.. universal health care should be your right... this watered down obamacare version is useless... In Canada the insurance companies cannot tell you how much health care you get... why would you want to be the last civilized country to hang on to corporate greed.
With that said as a moral and compassionate society we do have an obligation to ensure that those that require medical services but can't afford them are provided with those services. Health care is not a Right but it is a Moral Obligation and there is a difference between the two.
Here is the problem with those that want to repeal Obamacare.
Those with pre-existing conditions that can't afford the medical services, can't afford the insurance, and/or are denied coverage will not receive the necessary medical services they require.
Those that simply can't afford health care services will either have to use very expensive "emergency room" services that are inadequate in treating non-emergency medical problems or will simply not receive the medical services they require.
Obamacare was not the best solution to the above problems but it did address and provide a solution to them. Republicans simply want to repeal Obamacare that simply reinstates the problem that existed before Obamacare.
The problem cannot be ignored by a moral and compassionate society but that is exactly what "Tea Party" Republicans propose in their attempts to repeal Obamacare as opposed to offering legislation to replace it with something better.
House Republicans have offered no legislative solution to ensure that every person that requires health care services but that cannot afford them will receive those medical services. They haven't offered any solution that is better than Obamacare.
shiva one has to live with universal health care and witness how it works. Two tier systems are a wrench in the works. allowing some to have subsidized health care, whilst others pay for better cause they can afford it does not work. you end up with the best doctors making a lot of cash and the not so good ones working on the cheap. my Family doctor makes about 200 grand a year...a specialist makes a lot more... still the best of the best seem to wander south of the border and get incredibly rich...an in law of mine was the head of anaesthesiology in a big Miami hospital , now is a partner in a few clinics , one in boca Rattan...if you saw this guys houses you would die...he lives next to where a famous fashion designer lived. trust me i understand the nuts and bolts and one has to take in the greed factor..there are tons of doctor cheats and over billing ...and it takes decades to iron out a system... here is a guidline ripped from wiki. The Ontario Health Premium (OHP) is a component of Ontario's Personal Income Tax system. The OHP is based on taxable income for a taxation year. As of May 2010, an Ontario resident with taxable income (i.e. income after subtracting allowable deductions) of $21,000 pays $60 per year. With taxable income of $22,000, the premium doubles to $120; with taxable income of $23,000, the premium is $180; with taxable income of $24,000, the premium is $240. The premium increases at a decreasing rate thereafter for taxable incomes up to $200,600, at which point the maximum premium of $900 is reached is that a lot of money to pay for everyone to have equal access to the best of the best... i always get the best...i demand a second and a third consultation, for my wife and me mum when she was alive...my doc knows i want the best and coughs up the best... that sounds weird...but when you know you system you can tweek it... now Basketball pros and baseball pros do get to jump the quay . But hey...that being said i know a lot of people that go to the doctor and receive heart surgery the next day... it's unfortunate but i don't think you people really understand anything about it.. shiva, i really respect you...your views on maybe the mideast are not mine, but i learn from yours..and respect them no matter how harsh my response is... i say this cause even you don;t really understand the value of universal health care...this whole forcing others to pay...another facet of the socialist propaganda fear mongering inherent in america. you people really are being used as pawns.. |
|
|
|
Post by maniacalhamster on Sept 30, 2013 16:49:10 GMT
<<<Admin Edit: Rule 2 Violation Removed>>>
|
|
|
|
Post by ShivaTD on Oct 1, 2013 12:56:35 GMT
Sorry but no one has a Right to require someone else to pay for their health care.
If the Republicans insist on forcing people to be born, clearly they are responsible for all their expenses throughout life, surely? Abortion has been legal since 1973. And since then, every woman who wants one could get it.
As for women being able to obtain an abortion since 1973 that is not exactly true. They have a Right to but many are being denied that Right by laws that circumvent the protected Rights of the Woman established by the Roe v Wade decision.
In several Republican controlled States they have passed laws that have closed the abortion clinics (that also provide reproductive services to women) denying them access to abortion. I forget which states they are but I believe there are two where there is only one clinic in each state that provides abortion services. For a woman without private transportation it makes it virtually impossible to obtain an abortion. A common tactic by Republicans in these states is to also require a 24-hr waiting period so a poor woman would have to obtain transportation twice even if they could get to the abortion clinic.
Texas Republicans recently proposed or enacted (I don't recall) a law that would close all but four of five abortion clinics in the state by imposing requirements that were not based upon the risks associated with abortion. The sole intent of the legislation was to close abortion clinics run by Planned Parenthood that nationally is the largest single provider of women's reproductive services.
Denial of Access = Denial of Right
|
|
|
|
Post by iolo on Oct 1, 2013 13:02:07 GMT
It looks as if the Republicans are planning to overthrow democracy. Why aren't these weirdoes arrested?; they are clearly an enormously greater danger to the Republic than those poor old Japanese families were in the War.
|
|
|
|
Post by ShivaTD on Oct 1, 2013 13:10:04 GMT
Sorry but no one has a Right to require someone else to pay for their health care.
The issue of "public health care" from a "Rights" perspective is very similar to the laws related to children. The Child has a "Right to Eat" but not a "Right to Be Fed" because a Right cannot impose an obligation upon another person. As a "moral and compassionate" society though we do have laws that require the guardian(s) of a child to fed the child. The law isn't based upon a Right but instead is based upon "Compassion and a Moral Obligation" of society.
The same is true of publically funded health care. The person doesn't have a Right to that Health Care but as a Compassionate and Moral Society we have an obligation to provide for their health care needs if they can't afford it.
That is, of course, unless a person is a member of the Tea Party that doesn't believe they have any obligations to society based upon either "Compassion" or "Morality" as they've adopted the Nancy Reagan motto of "Just Say No" to anyone in need of medical services but can't afford them even if it means that person will die.
|
|
|
|
Post by iolo on Oct 1, 2013 13:18:46 GMT
Sorry but no one has a Right to require someone else to pay for their health care.
The issue of "public health care" from a "Rights" perspective is very similar to the laws related to children. The Child has a "Right to Eat" but not a "Right to Be Fed" because a Right cannot impose an obligation upon another person. As a "moral and compassionate" society though we do have laws that require the guardian(s) of a child to fed the child. The law isn't based upon a Right but instead is based upon "Compassion and a Moral Obligation" of society.
The same is true of publically funded health care. The person doesn't have a Right to that Health Care but as a Compassionate and Moral Society we have an obligation to provide for their health care needs if they can't afford it.
That is, of course, unless a person is a member of the Tea Party that doesn't believe they have any obligations to society based upon either "Compassion" or "Morality" as they've adopted the Nancy Reagan motto of "Just Say No" to anyone in need of medical services but can't afford them even if it means that person will die.
Iolo said nothing so confused: it is a mistake. Everyone has the right to health care, at whatever age, everywhere, free |
|
|
|
Post by ShivaTD on Oct 1, 2013 13:29:02 GMT
This is true at the individual level but the government has the authority to tax and pay for health care services for the individual.
The issue of "public health care" from a "Rights" perspective is very similar to the laws related to children. The Child has a "Right to Eat" but not a "Right to Be Fed" because a Right cannot impose an obligation upon another person. As a "moral and compassionate" society though we do have laws that require the guardian(s) of a child to fed the child. The law isn't based upon a Right but instead is based upon "Compassion and a Moral Obligation" of society.
The same is true of publically funded health care. The person doesn't have a Right to that Health Care but as a Compassionate and Moral Society we have an obligation to provide for their health care needs if they can't afford it.
That is, of course, unless a person is a member of the Tea Party that doesn't believe they have any obligations to society based upon either "Compassion" or "Morality" as they've adopted the Nancy Reagan motto of "Just Say No" to anyone in need of medical services but can't afford them even if it means that person will die.
Iolo said nothing so confused: it is a mistake. Everyone has the right to health care, at whatever age, everywhere, free
A person has a Right to Provide for their own health care needs (e.g. if a person needs antibiotics then they should be able to obtain them by purchasing them without going to a doctor) or if they need a pain killer they should be able to grow the opium poppy to use as a pain killer but they DON'T have a Right to expect someone else to provide for their personal health care.
As noted though a "Moral and Compassionate" society has an "Obligation" to provide for the health care of a person that can't afford to pay for it. That Obligation is not based upon an "Inalienable Right of the Person"
but instead is based upon a "Moral and Compassionate" society.
We need only understand the differences between a Right of the Person and an Obligation of Society.
|
|
|
|
Post by iolo on Oct 1, 2013 13:50:10 GMT
Iolo said nothing so confused: it is a mistake. Everyone has the right to health care, at whatever age, everywhere, free
A person has a Right to Provide for their own health care needs (e.g. if a person needs antibiotics then they should be able to obtain them by purchasing them without going to a doctor) or if they need a pain killer they should be able to grow the opium poppy to use as a pain killer but they DON'T have a Right to expect someone else to provide for their personal health care.
As noted though a "Moral and Compassionate" society has an "Obligation" to provide for the health care of a person that can't afford to pay for it. That Obligation is not based upon an "Inalienable Right of the Person"
but instead is based upon a "Moral and Compassionate" society.
We need only understand the differences between a Right of the Person and an Obligation of Society.
Everyone has the right to live as long and as well as possible, and while that right is denied, they have the right to overthrow the crappy system that kills them to keep the rich fat. Save your bull*fairy dust* for Americans - normal people should concentrate on what matters! |
|
|
|
Post by JP5 on Oct 1, 2013 14:36:30 GMT
Abortion has been legal since 1973. And since then, every woman who wants one could get it.
As for women being able to obtain an abortion since 1973 that is not exactly true. They have a Right to but many are being denied that Right by laws that circumvent the protected Rights of the Woman established by the Roe v Wade decision.
In several Republican controlled States they have passed laws that have closed the abortion clinics (that also provide reproductive services to women) denying them access to abortion. I forget which states they are but I believe there are two where there is only one clinic in each state that provides abortion services. For a woman without private transportation it makes it virtually impossible to obtain an abortion. A common tactic by Republicans in these states is to also require a 24-hr waiting period so a poor woman would have to obtain transportation twice even if they could get to the abortion clinic.
Texas Republicans recently proposed or enacted (I don't recall) a law that would close all but four of five abortion clinics in the state by imposing requirements that were not based upon the risks associated with abortion. The sole intent of the legislation was to close abortion clinics run by Planned Parenthood that nationally is the largest single provider of women's reproductive services.
Denial of Access = Denial of Right
So, how many abortions for this one poor woman who doesn't even have a way to get to the store evidently....per you.....do I have to pay for? At what point can I require something on her part.....like responsible behavior? Sorry---but there is NO RIGHT to an abortion. That is not even what Roe v Wade said. In fact, Roe v Wade said that states STILL have the right to set limits on the legality of abortions.....which is why Texas was on safe grounds by recently setting the limit for abortions in our state at 20 weeks. A compromise, for sure, but at least it's something. Your first paragraph is a difference without a distinction. Before 1973, back alley abortions were taking place; illegally. After 1973, any doctor who chose to do them could....legally. |
|
