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Post by JP5 on Nov 14, 2013 0:18:55 GMT
Well, it seems they finally are seeing the writing on the wall; they are done IF they continue to support the fiasco called Obamacare. Charles Krauthamer said today that "we may be seeing the end of American Liberalism." He advises Republicans to simply stand back, stay calm, and allow it to happen. And now.....an "ultimatum" given to Obama by Democrats. These are the same Democrats that were 110% behind him all along.....but now that it's going badly are jumping ship. I don't blame them; they should jump ship. But they also cannot pretend they were not a HUGE part of pushing it on the people and lying to them as well. They are just as guilty of this ill-conceived socialist program that was pushed off on the people as Obama.
"House Democrats delivered a fix-it-or-else ultimatum Wednesday to President Obama, giving his administration until Friday to find an affordable solution for the millions of Americans losing their health plans under ObamaCare -- or risk some Democrats backing a Republican solution.
The ultimatum from President Obama's own party is another sign of the unrest within the Democratic caucus about the cancellation notices. The end-of-the-week deadline is significant, because House Republicans are planning to call a vote Friday on a bill that would extend current policies for another year."
Remember that delaying the Individual Mandate for a year is what Republicans proposed during the Shut down crisis....and Obama and Democrats said, "No." I'm betting they are wishing they'd taken that deal now......not only would it have avoided the shut down had Obama done so....but they would have had more time to work on the website. It's usually not a good idea to be so POLITICAL that one cannot think beyond that. Obama always go for what he believes benefits him political and NOT what is best for the country. This time he was dead wrong.......
www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/11/13/dems-give-obama-ultimatum-fix-health-plan-cancellations-by-friday/
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Post by ShivaTD on Nov 14, 2013 12:28:41 GMT
Of everything I found the following to be most interesting.
There are two inherent problems with this.
First of all it would logically be up to the Democrats in the House to actually address this issue. They're the one's that need to provide a solution that would pass in the House because without the House supporting an "affordable solution" any proposal by the President is moot. In short they're simply passing the buck to the White House because they're not willing to address their own responsibilities as members of Congress to come up with a legislative solution.
Next it the problem that there isn't a "default" position of Democrats backing a Republican solution because Republicans are interested in any solutions to the problems of Obamacare.
The Republicans don't want to provide solutions to the problems and, in fact, if they thought they could pass legislation that would create even more problems they'd jump on that opportunity. If President Obama made proposals that would instantly fix the access problems and immediately stop private insurance companies from dropping existing subscribers the Republicans in the House would vote down both proposals. They don't want to fix any of the problems and instead would like to see more problems if at all possible.
Any belief that Republicans care about Americans losing their private health insurance is delusional. The Republicans are rolling in joy over the misfortune of these Americans. They would love to see twice as many Americans lose their private insurance and have no interest whatsoever in trying to stop in from happening.
"Obamacare" had a great goal of ensuring that tens of millions of Americans would receive quality health care but it is plagued with problems and none of those problems are going to be fixed because Republicans oppose fixing any of the problems and they control the House of Representatives. Every problem that the Republicans have identified is a problem that they're happy about and have no intention whatsoever of fixing and will block any proposal to fix them.
Bottom line:
First we need to condemn the House Democrats for passing the buck to the President on problems where it's their responsibility to address the problems with Obamacare.
Next we need to condemn the House Republicans for opposing and blocking any possible solutions to any of the problems associated with Obamacare.
Because of both of the above the American People are the one's that end up suffering and that is what should never be forgotten.
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Post by niff on Nov 14, 2013 13:35:29 GMT
The Government couldn't keep a porn site up and running.
CK is right. Let the LIBs keep screwing up the healthcare system all by themselves.
I know what 'The Smallest Book In The World' will be in Obama's 'Library'. (Located behind the Ochopee post office).
'The Book of President Obama's Kept Promises'.
There are lessons to be learned by the REP voters. I hope they remember them in 014/016.
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Post by ShivaTD on Nov 14, 2013 14:28:29 GMT
Let the LIBs keep screwing up the healthcare system all by themselves. There are lessons to be learned by the REP voters. I hope they remember them in 014/016.
I have yet to see any problems with the American Health Care System being caused by Obamacare. In fact, the addition of millions of new people that will be provided with quality health care (A Republican Party Platform Plank) would actually indicate an improvement with American Health Care System.
It is debatable whether the American public will have the memory span to remember how disastrous the Republicans have been with their obstructionism in Congress but they might. I doubt, for example, that Americans will remember that the Tea Party Republicans in Congress, while saying they want to cut government spending, were responsible for $22 billion in additional deficit spending by our government due to their partial shutdown of the US government and the untold cost to the economy that this shutdown also caused. They correctly blamed the Republicans for the shutdown and the threat of default on the national debt but will they remember it?
So will Americans remember that when it comes time to vote in 2014 and 2016? I doubt it but they should.
But then again they won't remember the problems with the implementation of Obamacare either and they should.
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Post by JP5 on Nov 14, 2013 16:01:33 GMT
It's an absolute lie to say the president is going to try now and "fix" Obamacare with one announcement. He's not. Why? Because it can't be fixed. BUT instead of having a bunch of Democrats sign on to the Republican legislation this Friday (which is/was going to happen), they all got together and said, "once again, we can't let the Republicans have any kind of win here; even if it IS better for the American people." They know the writing in on the wall regarding their jobs....and so they gave the president the ultimatum.
Frankly, I'm glad that the abortion called Obamacare will continue to REMAIN 100% the Democrats baby!!! IF Obama wants this to remain totally 100% partisan, then so be it. He'll reap what he sows next November 2014. They don't know what they are doing; that's clear. And they won't listen to anybody from the other side. This bill was never bi-partisan from the beginning......and it's still not bi-partisan. Whatever he's going to do is what he usually does: all by himself change a law/legislation when he does NOT have the authority to do so.
And continuing to try to pass the buck and blame Republicans for Obamacare is both sad and laughable. And yes, many Republicans are saying, "I told you so" right now......as well they should be. For 5 years they've been pointing out how Obamacare would NOT work and that the people didn't want it.........but were either ignored or called names. Obama had to LIE to the people in order to get elected BOTH times.....so he is reaping what he himself sowed. I just feel sorry for the millions of Americans who are now suffering from Obama's political actions.
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Post by ShivaTD on Nov 14, 2013 17:57:19 GMT
Problem solved by the White House for now.
No matter what their private health insurance policy covered or didn't cover no private health insurance plan is going to be held accountable to any of the Obamacare provisions at least for 2014.
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Post by JP5 on Nov 16, 2013 0:38:31 GMT
Problem solved by the White House for now.
No matter what their private health insurance policy covered or didn't cover no private health insurance plan is going to be held accountable to any of the Obamacare provisions at least for 2014. Oh yeah.....for heaven's sakes.....he wants to get through yet another election. It's not the first time; it's why we have a year wait on the corporate mandate----so he could get through the 2012 election. He's doing it again. Problem for him is.......people have lost trust in him; don't believe him anymore. And everyone with half a brain knows that what he suggests is simply to try and shift some blame away from him. Guess what? It doesn't work. People aren't as stupid as he thinks they are..... |
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Post by ShivaTD on Nov 16, 2013 12:36:48 GMT
No denying that the fact is that behind every move of a politician there is a political motive but what tends to be forgotten is that the US electorate has a relatively short memory. By the time the elections in 2014 are in full swing the implementation problems related to "Obamacare" will be largely forgotten and Republicans are going to be placed in the position of having to support revocation of health care for millions of Americans. I don't believe that Republicans have a viable position related to that because Americans, in general, will oppose yanking health insurance, public or private, from millions of insured Americans. Not even the "costs" will be an issue because the impact of the costs won't be felt for many years to come. We know that they're coming but the average voter has little foresight.
Here's the kicker and I've basically brought it up before. The Democrats really wanted a single-payer system but instead tried what they consider the "Republican" way of addressing the health care problem. The employer and individual mandates were based upon proposals by the Heritage Foundation in the hopes of gaining some Republican support and that obviously failed in 2009. So now the word going around Washington, based upon what I've heard, is the Democrats are now moving towards believing that a single-payer system is the only real solution.
Healthcare-Now is an organization that I subscribe to their emails and they've been actively involved in promoting the replacement of "Obamacare" with a single-payer system since the day "Obamacare" was passed. When we look at the statistics related to those that oppose "Obamacare" about half of those opposed favor replacing it with a single-payer system! Basically 1/2 of those opposed to "Obamacare" are not conservatives that believe "Obamacare" went to far but liberals that don't believe it went far enough!!!
We're basically still sitting on the same situation that existed in 2009. We have three proposals with "Obamacare" as being the law, "single-payer" as a proposal to replace "Obamacare" by liberals, and the "conservative" proposal of "No Solution" to the problem by repealing "Obamacare" and replacing it with nothing.
"Conservatives" all too often try to argue that no problem exists, for example by citing "free" medical services available in Dallas County TX, but the American People overwhelmingly do believe the problem of the uninsured does existed. It's just my opinion that I don't believe Republicans can sell Americans on the belief that no problem existed considering the statistical data that the problem really does exist. It is my opinion that if the Republicans want to win at the polls in 2014 they really are going to have to make a proposal that is superior to "Obamacare" because I don't think Americans are going to accept going back to millions of people not having "insurance" of any kind. I don't believe the Republicans can win that argument.
Bottom line I don't think the implementation problems are going to be a real issue for the American voters come November and if Republicans are hoping that it will be then I think they have a false hope. Living in the past is not what Republicans need to do. They need to focus on the future because that's what Americans really care about. That shouldn't be considered to be condemnation of Republicans but instead it should be consider to be advice for Republicans if they're focused on the 2014 elections from someone that doesn't support either Democrats or Republicans.
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Post by niff on Nov 20, 2013 14:12:41 GMT
The actual 'bottom line' is Obamacare must have young healthy people paying for what they do not want nor need for it to work.
The 'poor' never have to pay a nickel of course. The 'rich' are fine with their platinum health insurance.
Obama and Co. are desperate to con REPs into getting their hands dirty so the LIBs can later say: "True Obamacare turned out to be a total ponsey scheme typical Obama fail BUT the REPS also got their hands dirty".
Not going to happen. And it's driving LIBs nuts!
It's hilarious to watch them scream: "Why don't you REPs come up with a solution!?" B/c REPs don't believe the healthcare system needed such a drastic overhaul. LIBs want the country to move towards bigger government AKA Socialism. Not going to happen.
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Post by ShivaTD on Nov 21, 2013 15:37:47 GMT
The actual 'bottom line' is Obamacare must have young healthy people paying for what they do not want nor need for it to work. "Why don't you REPs come up with a solution!?" B/c REPs don't believe the healthcare system needed such a drastic overhaul.
The US Congress needs to come up with a better solution than "Obamacare" and it is unlikely that the Democrats are going to offer a proposal to do that. The US healthcare system was "broken" and we've known that at least since 1948 when Congress identified the problem. Some fixes (that I personally disagree with) have been implemented over the years but they only partially addressed the problems with the US healthcare system.
What we do have is more recent statistical information on the extent of the problem.
Based upon two different studies we can basically assume that somewhere between 26,000 and 45,000 Americans were dying each year due to a lack of health insurance. It doesn't really matter which report we might choose to believe is more accurate both reflect an appalling number of Americans dying due to a lack of health insurance. We also know that with tens of thousands dying each year from a lack of health insurance that many millions are not receiving adequate health care services because the differences in the number of deaths between the insured and uninsured is overwhelmingly due to a lack of early detection of serious illnesses.
On one point we can agree and that is in addressing this problem Obamacare was a "drastic" solution to it which was unnecessary so we need a proposal that is "less drastic" that still addresses the problem. Now Republicans can make a proposal that addresses the problem in a less drastic manner but it must address the problem nonetheless and that's what they're not doing.
I've used the analogy before of a person drowning. The Democrats designed and built a hollow life preserver made out of gold and threw it to the drowning person and it will prevent them from drowning. The problem is that it's a very expensive way to save a person's life. A simply foam life preserver that only costs a fraction as much would do the same job and save the person's life. The problem is that Republicans aren't offering a foam life preserver but instead want to take the gold life preserver away from the drowning person and leave them to die.
That is not a solution for the drowning person and letting Americans die is not an option for Republicans
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