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Post by Leo on Dec 23, 2013 4:51:07 GMT
Everywhere else in the English speaking world, the word for a tasty morsel, or a pleasing scrap of something, is a 'titbit', but in prudish North America (both Canada and the US) it becomes a 'tidbit'. Why? The word tit is not in any way obscene. Tits are a large family of small passerine birds which occur in the northern hemisphere and Africa, hence the derivation of a small, pleasing thing.
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Post by iolo on Dec 23, 2013 13:37:33 GMT
Everywhere else in the English speaking world, the word for a tasty morsel, or a pleasing scrap of something, is a 'titbit', but in prudish North America (both Canada and the US) it becomes a 'tidbit'. Why? The word tit is not in any way obscene. Tits are a large family of small passerine birds which occur in the northern hemisphere and Africa, hence the derivation of a small, pleasing thing. I think that is the way they say it. What do they call breast of chicken? 'White meat', I am told. Which it is, of course. And they relieve themselves in washrooms, I think, which must make for embarrassment, but everyone has always had trouble with what to call the bogs, fair play. |
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Post by Leo on Dec 23, 2013 14:19:35 GMT
Everywhere else in the English speaking world, the word for a tasty morsel, or a pleasing scrap of something, is a 'titbit', but in prudish North America (both Canada and the US) it becomes a 'tidbit'. Why? The word tit is not in any way obscene. Tits are a large family of small passerine birds which occur in the northern hemisphere and Africa, hence the derivation of a small, pleasing thing. I think that is the way they say it. What do they call breast of chicken? 'White meat', I am told. Which it is, of course. And they relieve themselves in washrooms, I think, which must make for embarrassment, but everyone has always had trouble with what to call the bogs, fair play. 
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Post by iolo on Dec 23, 2013 14:33:28 GMT
As did we - a rough, ungenteel, un-American lot. Our alternative was ty bach (can't do the circumflex on 'ty') = 'little house', but that just reflected most people's domestic geography!
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Post by cenydd on Dec 24, 2013 12:58:25 GMT
I used to get told off for referring to 'bog roll', so in our house we now refer to 'lavatory papyrus'!
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Post by pjohns1873 on Dec 24, 2013 15:04:02 GMT
Everywhere else in the English speaking world, the word for a tasty morsel, or a pleasing scrap of something, is a 'titbit', but in prudish North America (both Canada and the US) it becomes a 'tidbit'. Why? The word tit is not in any way obscene. Tits are a large family of small passerine birds which occur in the northern hemisphere and Africa, hence the derivation of a small, pleasing thing. I think that is the way they say it. What do they call breast of chicken? 'White meat', I am told. Which it is, of course. And they relieve themselves in washrooms, I think, which must make for embarrassment, but everyone has always had trouble with what to call the bogs, fair play. It is, indeed, just a matter of how we speak; and is not a matter of prudishness, as another poster has suggested. (By the way, the bird to which he refers is known as a titmouse--in this country, anyway; I cannot speak to the matter of what it may be called elsewhere.) We sometimes refer to chicken breast as "white meat"; but we refer to it, alternativeley, as--you guessed it--"chicken breast." In fact, some brands of canned meat label it "white meat"; whereas others label it "chicken breast." And, although I have heard the term, "washrooms," what the Brits refer to as "lavatories" are typically known as "bathrooms" or "restrooms" in the US. (Technically, "bathroom" refers to a restroom with a tub--or, at least, a shower--attached to it; but the two terms are often used interchangeably in American parlance. For real-estate agents, a "half bathroom"--or "half bath"--is a room that contains a toilet and a basin, but no place to bathe. The newer term, "three-quarters bathroom" or "three-quarters bath," means a room with a toilet, a basin, and a shower--but no tub.) |
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Post by iolo on Dec 24, 2013 17:20:55 GMT
I think that is the way they say it. What do they call breast of chicken? 'White meat', I am told. Which it is, of course. And they relieve themselves in washrooms, I think, which must make for embarrassment, but everyone has always had trouble with what to call the bogs, fair play. It is, indeed, just a matter of how we speak; and is not a matter of prudishness, as another poster has suggested. (By the way, the bird to which he refers is known as a titmouse--in this country, anyway; I cannot speak to the matter of what it may be called elsewhere.) We sometimes refer to chicken breast as "white meat"; but we refer to it, alternativeley, as--you guessed it--"chicken breast." In fact, some brands of canned meat label it "white meat"; whereas others label it "chicken breast." And, although I have heard the term, "washrooms," what the Brits refer to as "lavatories" are typically known as "bathrooms" or "restrooms" in the US. (Technically, "bathroom" refers to a restroom with a tub--or, at least, a shower--attached to it; but the two terms are often used interchangeably in American parlance. For real-estate agents, a "half bathroom"--or "half bath"--is a room that contains a toilet and a basin, but no place to bathe. The newer term, "three-quarters bathroom" or "three-quarters bath," means a room with a toilet, a basin, and a shower--but no tub.) I'd forgotten 'restrooms'. These things are odd everywhere - there were riots in Paris, as I recollect, when Victor Hugo used the term 'muchoir', the ordinary word for 'handkerchief', in a play, shockingly. As the 'tidbit' oddity in a British newspaper suggests, things are evening out with international English. I remember when only Income Tax men still pronounced 'schedule' in the British way, since Americans use the word more often and films seemed to be full of Skeduals. And nowadays people 'battle' things instead of battling with them as their ancestors did. The world is going to the dawgs. |
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Post by cenydd on Dec 24, 2013 23:18:09 GMT
This thread reminds me so much of this video from David Mitchell:
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Post by fred on Dec 25, 2013 0:19:57 GMT
I can't say bog any more because no one here understands it.
"Toilet" is the only word on the menu ..... and handy because so much really spicy food is on the menu.
You may also use, "Kamar kecil", the little room.
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Post by pjohns1873 on Dec 25, 2013 15:05:48 GMT
It is, indeed, just a matter of how we speak; and is not a matter of prudishness, as another poster has suggested. (By the way, the bird to which he refers is known as a titmouse--in this country, anyway; I cannot speak to the matter of what it may be called elsewhere.) We sometimes refer to chicken breast as "white meat"; but we refer to it, alternativeley, as--you guessed it--"chicken breast." In fact, some brands of canned meat label it "white meat"; whereas others label it "chicken breast." And, although I have heard the term, "washrooms," what the Brits refer to as "lavatories" are typically known as "bathrooms" or "restrooms" in the US. (Technically, "bathroom" refers to a restroom with a tub--or, at least, a shower--attached to it; but the two terms are often used interchangeably in American parlance. For real-estate agents, a "half bathroom"--or "half bath"--is a room that contains a toilet and a basin, but no place to bathe. The newer term, "three-quarters bathroom" or "three-quarters bath," means a room with a toilet, a basin, and a shower--but no tub.) I'd forgotten 'restrooms'. These things are odd everywhere - there were riots in Paris, as I recollect, when Victor Hugo used the term 'muchoir', the ordinary word for 'handkerchief', in a play, shockingly. As the 'tidbit' oddity in a British newspaper suggests, things are evening out with international English. I remember when only Income Tax men still pronounced 'schedule' in the British way, since Americans use the word more often and films seemed to be full of Skeduals. And nowadays people 'battle' things instead of battling with them as their ancestors did. The world is going to the dawgs. Yes, I think George Bernard Shaw once observed that the Americans and the Brits are "two peoples separated by a common language." (By the way, there is no single standard for American-style English; the speech produced by a Cajun in "Nawlins"--read: New Orleans--is hardly the same product as the Brooklynese of a New Yorker. The same is true, of course, for the Brits: There are many different dialects spoken by people in different parts of the country.) As for your tongue-in-cheek observation that "[t]he world is going to the dawgs"--well, only in Georgia. (Okay, that is a bit of provincial humor. The University of Georgia--which is a part of the Southeastern Conference--has the official nickname, "Bulldogs." But they are unofficially known as the "Junkyard Dawgs"--or just the "Dawgs," for short.) |
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Post by ShivaTD on Dec 26, 2013 15:07:02 GMT
Everywhere else in the English speaking world, the word for a tasty morsel, or a pleasing scrap of something, is a 'titbit', but in prudish North America (both Canada and the US) it becomes a 'tidbit'. Why?
Based upon what I can find in Merriam-Webster dictionary the word "Tidbit" was the original word that originated in around 1640 and "titbit" is the derivative of the original word. It was noted that the original word might have been derived from numerous small bird species that are called "tits" (as in titmouse bird found in N America) but that is uncertain. It could also have originated with the abbreviation "Tid" which means "three times a day" as normally there were only two meals per day (breakfast and dinner) and going to three meals a day resulted in smaller meals at each serving. Lunch would often be a "tidbit" of a meal consisting of nothing more than a small piece of cheese and/or bread. In short we when from two larger meals to three smaller meals which could have been the basis for "tidbit" which represented smaller portions at the three meals. It is all speculative of course as we don't know of anything more than the word "tidbit" was the first to be used in publication.
In any case I don't see it as being "prudish" as we don't know which came first, Tidbit or Titbit but we do know that today "Tidbit" is the correct spelling and pronounciation of the word in the English language. Basically it appears that those using "titbit" at least according to Merriam-Webster are simply mispronouncing and spelling the word which is not all that uncommon in language.
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/titbit www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tidbit en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tufted_Titmouse www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tit www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tid
There is no evidence that the difference is based upon prudish behavior which is what the claim was in the OP. In Canada and the US we're merely using the word as established in 1640 and "titbit" doesn't have that historical reference.
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Post by JP5 on Dec 26, 2013 16:27:04 GMT
I agree with Shiva. PLUS......"tidbit" is just easier to say than "titbit," the second being a bit of a tongue-twister (pun intended) On the issue of "restrooms" and Paris--- As an American traveling in Paris once....I discovered that even in "nice" cafes, one had to stand over a hole in the floor to relieve themselves as opposed to having a commode. THAT was quite appalling (and backward) to me....but then so was having their poodles sitting with them at the dinner table. Americans have come a long way rather quickly I guess.....since we brought indoor plumbing in and got rid of the outdoor houses. Dogs are not welcome inside any restaurant....although there are a few outdoor ones that will allow one to bring their dogs. I personally avoid those. I love dogs, but don't want to personally smell the pee and poop while I'm eating. But that's just me, I guess. |
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Post by ShivaTD on Dec 26, 2013 16:58:08 GMT
Well trained dogs don't pee or poop in restaurants and it is the responsibility of the owner to ensure their dog is well trained.
Of note we often refer to a restroom as a "Crapper" after Thomas Crapper that did much to popularize the use of the flush toilet. Of course from the word crapper comes the word crap as in "take a crap" so I wouldn't call us all that prudish. It is slang of course and we use a lot of slang in America.
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Post by iolo on Dec 26, 2013 17:14:37 GMT
I agree with Shiva. PLUS......" tidbit" is just easier to say than "titbit," the second being a bit of a tongue-twister (pun intended) On the issue of "restrooms" and Paris--- As an American traveling in Paris once....I discovered that even in "nice" cafes, one had to stand over a hole in the floor to relieve themselves as opposed to having a commode. THAT was quite appalling (and backward) to me....but then so was having their poodles sitting with them at the dinner table. Americans have come a long way rather quickly I guess.....since we brought indoor plumbing in and got rid of the outdoor houses. Dogs are not welcome inside any restaurant....although there are a few outdoor ones that will allow one to bring their dogs. I personally avoid those. I love dogs, but don't want to personally smell the pee and poop while I'm eating. But that's just me, I guess. Easier for you, harder for us. I experienced those holes in the floor in as monastery in Italy: they had nice little spaces for your feet. 'Very quaint!' said I and an unknown Englishman to one another. Public bogs are gradually being eliminated over here as part of the tory attack on western civilisation, since councils can't afford them and use various excuses to close them down, so that people must use shop doorways and the like as Mrs Thatcher intended, as we are to believe in Victorian values. Onwards and downwards! Someone related to me fell down some private stairs in a Spanish café and died: the case will outdo Jardyce and Jardyce: over there fascism lives, ok? |
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Post by Leo on Dec 27, 2013 4:50:17 GMT
Everywhere else in the English speaking world, the word for a tasty morsel, or a pleasing scrap of something, is a 'titbit', but in prudish North America (both Canada and the US) it becomes a 'tidbit'. Why?
Based upon what I can find in Merriam-Webster dictionary the word "Tidbit" was the original word that originated in around 1640 and "titbit" is the derivative of the original word. It was noted that the original word might have been derived from numerous small bird species that are called "tits" (as in titmouse bird found in N America) but that is uncertain. It could also have originated with the abbreviation "Tid" which means "three times a day" as normally there were only two meals per day (breakfast and dinner) and going to three meals a day resulted in smaller meals at each serving. Lunch would often be a "tidbit" of a meal consisting of nothing more than a small piece of cheese and/or bread. In short we when from two larger meals to three smaller meals which could have been the basis for "tidbit" which represented smaller portions at the three meals. It is all speculative of course as we don't know of anything more than the word "tidbit" was the first to be used in publication.
In any case I don't see it as being "prudish" as we don't know which came first, Tidbit or Titbit but we do know that today "Tidbit" is the correct spelling and pronounciation of the word in the English language. Basically it appears that those using "titbit" at least according to Merriam-Webster are simply mispronouncing and spelling the word which is not all that uncommon in language.
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/titbit www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tidbit en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tufted_Titmouse www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tit www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tid
There is no evidence that the difference is based upon prudish behavior which is what the claim was in the OP. In Canada and the US we're merely using the word as established in 1640 and "titbit" doesn't have that historical reference.
You are not however correct in your statement that 'tidbit' is the correct English spelling and pronunciation, the Oxford English Dictionary classes that as an Americanism. 'Titbit' has evolved into the correct English form.
www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/titbit
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