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Post by pjohns1873 on May 6, 2014 0:54:47 GMT
From Forbes:But that is just an excerpt. Here is a link to the entire article: Intercepted Phone Calls Show Putin Called The Shots On European Hostages In Ukraine - Forbes Vladimir Putin--who is surely the puppetmaster--should now be seen, clearly, as orchestrating the recent violence in Ukraine. But will he be? Or will those who would prefer to just look the other way--to not "get involved"--continue to pretend that it is all the fault of neo-Nazis in Ukraine, or even that it is just too complicated to be sure?
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Post by fred on May 7, 2014 12:31:41 GMT
MY GOD I'm glad America would never stoop that low.
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Post by pjohns1873 on May 13, 2014 5:43:52 GMT
MY GOD I'm glad America would never stoop that low. Okay, so the language was a bit inelegant (and ineloquent). But how is it in any way comparable to Vladimir Putin's actions--actions that are much more than merely a technical violation of civil decorum?
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Post by fred on May 14, 2014 1:24:18 GMT
MY GOD I'm glad America would never stoop that low. Okay, so the language was a bit inelegant (and ineloquent). But how is it in any way comparable to Vladimir Putin's actions--actions that are much more than merely a technical violation of civil decorum? Drrr - they're talking about who they'll allow into a foreign government. That and the CIA agents arrested whilst helping the coup leaders
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Post by pjohns1873 on May 14, 2014 16:20:27 GMT
Okay, so the language was a bit inelegant (and ineloquent). But how is it in any way comparable to Vladimir Putin's actions--actions that are much more than merely a technical violation of civil decorum? Drrr - they're talking about who they'll allow into a foreign government. That and the CIA agents arrested whilst helping the coup leaders The question remains: How is this banter in any way comparable to Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine? (Russia's annexation of Crimea, sadly, is already a fait accompli; it appears to be irreversible. And it remains entirely possible that the rest of eastern Ukraine--indeed, even all of Ukraine--may eventually be absorbed by an expansionist Russia.)
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Post by fred on May 14, 2014 23:29:32 GMT
Drrr - they're talking about who they'll allow into a foreign government. That and the CIA agents arrested whilst helping the coup leaders The question remains: How is this banter in any way comparable to Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine? (Russia's annexation of Crimea, sadly, is already a fait accompli; it appears to be irreversible. And it remains entirely possible that the rest of eastern Ukraine--indeed, even all of Ukraine--may eventually be absorbed by an expansionist Russia.) America did it first. That hardly excuses Russia, but it removes any realistic voice for America in this conflict. They can hardly moan about a coup, when they started a coup in the same country only a few weeks before.
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Post by pjohns1873 on May 15, 2014 0:00:50 GMT
The question remains: How is this banter in any way comparable to Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine? (Russia's annexation of Crimea, sadly, is already a fait accompli; it appears to be irreversible. And it remains entirely possible that the rest of eastern Ukraine--indeed, even all of Ukraine--may eventually be absorbed by an expansionist Russia.) America did it first. That hardly excuses Russia, but it removes any realistic voice for America in this conflict. They can hardly moan about a coup, when they started a coup in the same country only a few weeks before. Ukraine did not experience a "coup" (as the Russians' talking points claim). Rather, a dictator--who, like the late Hugo Chavez of Venezuela, was elected, but who had expanded his own powers while diminishing the powers of the parliament--was (justifiably) ousted from office by the citizenry. (The people in a democracy should never feel reduced to the role of mere subjects of The Ruling Class.)
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Post by fred on May 15, 2014 11:17:19 GMT
CIA agent arrest whilst assisting the coup; nice video. beforeitsnews.com/war-and-conflict/2014/02/cia-agent-captured-in-ukraine-helping-ukranian-protesters-video-here-2450486.htmlOh look, American advisers - I think they had them in Vietnam as well. news.yahoo.com/cia-fbi-agents-advising-ukraine-government-report-101508429.htmlTo the elections. Not great, but not horrible www.osce.org/odihr/98578?download=trueThere were internationally observed elections in 2012, more were due March of next year. In other words, there was plenty of opportunity to vote the government out of office. Sadly, the Ukrainian government was moving away from Europe and towards Russia. The United states and EU didn't much like that so they started a coup. Russia couldn't allow that as a United states friendly/puppet government would probably allow American manned weapons systems into the country, bang next door to Russia. I think America had something to say about Russian missiles in Cuba - I forget the details. www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/05/chronology-of-the-ukrainian-coup/Look closely, it wasn't freedom from an oppressive government, it was international politics, run by the United states. The upshot is: America didn't like the Ukrainian government getting close to Russia. America set up a coup. America didn't like the results of a democratic referendum to join Russia. Russia may well be far from fault here, but America set the wheels in motion by setting up the coup against the freely elected government of that country.
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Post by fred on May 15, 2014 12:39:03 GMT
Ukraine did not experience a "coup" (as the Russians' talking points claim). Rather, a dictator--who, like the late Hugo Chavez of Venezuela, was elected, but who had expanded his own powers while diminishing the powers of the parliament--was (justifiably) ousted from office by the citizenry. (The people in a democracy should never feel reduced to the role of mere subjects of The Ruling Class.) Expanded powers - like the patriot act, secret prisons in Thailand and places like Gitmo bay, a hole where people were held for years without trial. So many tortured innocents, all victims of the old Ukrainian government - oh, sorry, that's the United states of America, fighting terrorism - just as they did when the funded the IRA's terrorist attacks against England, the bombing of Cuban airliners, carpet bombing civilians in Cambodia, bombing church goers in Indonesia and so on. America has nothing to come here, you lot are guilty of more terrorist attacks than any other nation and you're the only nation to down civilian aircraft and get away without a whisper, much less a trial. In fact, you've done it at least twice, once when one of your ships was in Iranian seas (illegally) and once when you were part of terrorist plot against Cuba. Can anyone name an instance where any American has been prosecuted for any terrorist attack, or even charged? No, you murder but you never put your killers on trial. The commander of the ship that shot down a civilian airliner would have been imprisoned if he'd been anything but American - you lot put him in charge of a military training camp. Frankly, the American government, now and in the past, are disgusting and, if I'm being honest, any attack against American military or government is justified military action, not a terrorist attack. To the thread, America has no legitimate say in this situation. It's no where near America, no threat to America and you started the ruddy thing in the first place. Any CIA operatives caught interfering in other countries politics or taking part in terrorist actions should be shot - literally. Pity they didn't do it to your agents in the Ukraine or the murdering pilot in Indonesia. Same goes for your drone operators, they murder innocents but not a lone has ever been prosecuted. Your drone control centres are a legitimate military target and, if I'm honest, I'd like to see them attacked and destroyed. news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/us-investigates-yemenis-charge-that-drone-strike-turned-wedding-into-a-funeral
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Post by pjohns1873 on May 15, 2014 23:56:25 GMT
Ukraine did not experience a "coup" (as the Russians' talking points claim). Rather, a dictator--who, like the late Hugo Chavez of Venezuela, was elected, but who had expanded his own powers while diminishing the powers of the parliament--was (justifiably) ousted from office by the citizenry. (The people in a democracy should never feel reduced to the role of mere subjects of The Ruling Class.) Expanded powers - like the patriot act, secret prisons in Thailand and places like Gitmo bay, a hole where people were held for years without trial. So many tortured innocents, all victims of the old Ukrainian government - oh, sorry, that's the United states of America, fighting terrorism - just as they did when the funded the IRA's terrorist attacks against England, the bombing of Cuban airliners, carpet bombing civilians in Cambodia, bombing church goers in Indonesia and so on. America has nothing to come here, you lot are guilty of more terrorist attacks than any other nation and you're the only nation to down civilian aircraft and get away without a whisper, much less a trial. In fact, you've done it at least twice, once when one of your ships was in Iranian seas (illegally) and once when you were part of terrorist plot against Cuba. Can anyone name an instance where any American has been prosecuted for any terrorist attack, or even charged? No, you murder but you never put your killers on trial. The commander of the ship that shot down a civilian airliner would have been imprisoned if he'd been anything but American - you lot put him in charge of a military training camp. Frankly, the American government, now and in the past, are disgusting and, if I'm being honest, any attack against American military or government is justified military action, not a terrorist attack. To the thread, America has no legitimate say in this situation. It's no where near America, no threat to America and you started the ruddy thing in the first place. Any CIA operatives caught interfering in other countries politics or taking part in terrorist actions should be shot - literally. Pity they didn't do it to your agents in the Ukraine or the murdering pilot in Indonesia. Same goes for your drone operators, they murder innocents but not a lone has ever been prosecuted. Your drone control centres are a legitimate military target and, if I'm honest, I'd like to see them attacked and destroyed. news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/us-investigates-yemenis-charge-that-drone-strike-turned-wedding-into-a-funeralThis is not a serious response to my post, but merely an (unhinged) anti-American rant. When you believe you can offer a serious response, please get back to me...
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Post by fred on May 16, 2014 3:40:26 GMT
This is not a serious response to my post, but merely an (unhinged) anti-American rant. When you believe you can offer a serious response, please get back to me... I'm so sorry history and the truth are anti American. Deny any of the above, if you can do so without lies. Gaddafi brought down an airliner, America demanded justice and attacked. America brought down an airliner with a missile - nothing; not even a charge against the killer. Your politicians and military are a blight on humanity.
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Post by pjohns1873 on May 16, 2014 6:09:55 GMT
This is not a serious response to my post, but merely an (unhinged) anti-American rant. When you believe you can offer a serious response, please get back to me... I'm so sorry history and the truth are anti American. Deny any of the above, if you can do so without lies. Gaddafi brought down an airliner, America demanded justice and attacked. America brought down an airliner with a missile - nothing; not even a charge against the killer. Your politicians and military are a blight on humanity. Henceforth, I shall simply ignore your posts. Good day, sir,
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Post by fred on May 16, 2014 6:45:45 GMT
I'm so sorry history and the truth are anti American. Deny any of the above, if you can do so without lies. Gaddafi brought down an airliner, America demanded justice and attacked. America brought down an airliner with a missile - nothing; not even a charge against the killer. Your politicians and military are a blight on humanity. Henceforth, I shall simply ignore your posts. Good day, sir, Typical American attitude.If you can't cover up your national crimes, either ignore them or get Hollywood to make a movie so your dumb population will think you won. Come on, explain how your murderers were arrested and taken to court for shooting down that Iranian civilian airliner. You can't because the captain was never charged. America can shoot down an airliner but nothing happens. Your government and military are disgusting. Ignore the truth but you'll get what's coming soon or later. Had 9/11 been the pentagon and white house, it would have been justified.
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