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Post by JP5 on Oct 24, 2013 22:52:12 GMT
As a U.S. citizen, I would like to extend an apology to both Germany and France for what our government under Barack Obama has done in the way of spying against you and your leaders. Please realize that MOST all of us over here are absolutely against this and just as upset as you are.....not only at what has been done to you, but to us as well. Many of us feel that we, too, are being spied on by this administration.
The president we have came in to office claiming he was going to "fundamentally" change the U.S. I doubt even those who voted for him knew exactly what he meant. But now we do. He has ruined our standing in the world. He has acted like a dictator over here......pushing a massive multi-Trillion piece of legislation on our people in a very partisan fashion. He has pitted groups of Americans against each other and he has not led. He hates at least 1/2 of the people he is supposed to be leading. I've been around for many presidents here......but this one is undoubtedly THE worst we've ever had. And that includes the very incompetent Jimmy Carter.
Again.....please don't hate the citizens here....we have nothing to do with the decisions this administration is making.
ca.news.yahoo.com/germany-france-unite-anger-over-u-spying-accusations-094005929.html |
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Post by iolo on Oct 25, 2013 12:53:54 GMT
Since President Carter was the only honest and decent one in the last century, that must say something for your current President.
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Post by JP5 on Oct 25, 2013 17:24:55 GMT
Since President Carter was the only honest and decent one in the last century, that must say something for your current President. |
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Post by fred on Oct 26, 2013 3:18:26 GMT
As a U.S. citizen, I would like to extend an apology to both Germany and France for what our government under Barack Obama has done in the way of spying against you and your leaders. Please realize that MOST all of us over here are absolutely against this and just as upset as you are.....not only at what has been done to you, but to us as well. Many of us feel that we, too, are being spied on by this administration. Perhaps you'd also add an apology for Bush's government as they started the spying. However, as all Muslims support suicide bombings and murder; I don't believe your assertion regarding most Americans not supporting spying on friendly nations. Everyone knows,all Americans are the same. |
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Post by iolo on Oct 26, 2013 12:12:28 GMT
Since President Carter was the only honest and decent one in the last century, that must say something for your current President. But they're all that. It's a requirement of the job. |
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Post by ShivaTD on Oct 28, 2013 10:59:43 GMT
As a U.S. citizen, I would like to extend an apology to both Germany and France for what our government under Barack Obama has done in the way of spying against you and your leaders. Please realize that MOST all of us over here are absolutely against this and just as upset as you are.....not only at what has been done to you, but to us as well. Many of us feel that we, too, are being spied on by this administration.
Senator Feinstein is the Chairman of the United States Senate Select Committee on Intelligence and if that Congressional committee wasn't informed of this NSA activity it's also unlikely that the White House was informed either.
The fact is that NSA spying on Americans as well as the rest of the world goes back decades. We also know that the tapping of foreign leaders phones goes back to well before Obama took office. Should Obama have stopped it? Absolutely! Was Obama responsible for it occurring? Absolutely not because it was something he inherited and we don't know who actually authorized the spying on foreign leaders that the NSA has probably been going on since 1952 when the NSA was founded. For all we know spying on foreign leaders could have first been authorized by George Washington.
What we, Americans, should be doing is demanding that the NSA be abolished. It has always violated the laws of the United States and the treaties that the United States is a party to. This has absolutely nothing to do specifically with President Obama although President Obama would be a hero of the the United States if he abolished the NSA IMHO.
This is not a partisan issue. It's an issue of the US government conducting wrongful actions against friendly nations as well as the American People historically and the NSA is the problem. It doesn't matter whether it was happening under Obama or Bush (it was going on under both) so trying to make it a partisan issue in disingenuous.
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Post by ShivaTD on Oct 28, 2013 17:39:49 GMT
I couldn't believe it this morning. CNN showed part of an interview with former Vice President Dick Cheney where he basically stated that the problem was not with the NSA violating the Rights of Americans protected by the 4th Amendment by tracking all of our emails and phone conversation or with the NSA spying on our allies but instead that it was ALL Snowden's fault for revealing that the NSA was doing this. That about made me fall out of my chair.
That's right Dick, don't blame the agency that is the problem, blame the person that made Americans aware of the scope and severity of the problem!!! In Cheney's sick and twisted mind it's okay to violate the US Constitution and the trust of our allies as long as no one knows about it. What they hell Dick, why not just have the US government murder the political opposition to your political beliefs and it will be "okay" as long as no one knows about it.
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Post by ShivaTD on Oct 28, 2013 19:01:16 GMT
More news is coming in on this matter. According to CNN the White House ordered and end to this NSA spying on foreign allies when it first learned of it this last summer. Some could question how President Obama wouldn't know about until his second term but the CNN interview with former VP Dick Cheney sheds light on this. This NSA spying apparently began in 2002 as part of the follow-up to the 9/11 attacks and Cheney stated that he'd never heard about it while he was the Vice President. If perhaps the most powerful VP in US history didn't know about this NSA spying for seven years then it's not unreasonable to believe that the current President didn't learn about it for four years.
One of the huge problems with the NSA is that it has always conducted spying activities without any president knowing about them. The NSA believes that it has virtually unlimited authority when it comes to it's spying activities as its never held accountable because all of its activities are secret and are virtually beyond any oversight or scrutiny.
We need to abolish the NSA because there is no way to keep it under control and history proves that time and again.
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Post by JP5 on Oct 28, 2013 21:40:34 GMT
As a U.S. citizen, I would like to extend an apology to both Germany and France for what our government under Barack Obama has done in the way of spying against you and your leaders. Please realize that MOST all of us over here are absolutely against this and just as upset as you are.....not only at what has been done to you, but to us as well. Many of us feel that we, too, are being spied on by this administration. Perhaps you'd also add an apology for Bush's government as they started the spying. However, as all Muslims support suicide bombings and murder; I don't believe your assertion regarding most Americans not supporting spying on friendly nations. Everyone knows,all Americans are the same.
Oh yes, we know, this is yet one more thing that Obama knew nothing about! |
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Post by JP5 on Oct 28, 2013 21:48:21 GMT
I couldn't believe it this morning. CNN showed part of an interview with former Vice President Dick Cheney where he basically stated that the problem was not with the NSA violating the Rights of Americans protected by the 4th Amendment by tracking all of our emails and phone conversation or with the NSA spying on our allies but instead that it was ALL Snowden's fault for revealing that the NSA was doing this. That about made me fall out of my chair.
That's right Dick, don't blame the agency that is the problem, blame the person that made Americans aware of the scope and severity of the problem!!! In Cheney's sick and twisted mind it's okay to violate the US Constitution and the trust of our allies as long as no one knows about it. What they hell Dick, why not just have the US government murder the political opposition to your political beliefs and it will be "okay" as long as no one knows about it.
PROVIDE PROOF OF THAT PLEASE. WE WANT THE ACTUAL STATEMENT FROM CHENEY where he said this, according to you. |
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Post by JP5 on Oct 28, 2013 21:55:58 GMT
Apparently Obama is claiming he didn't know about this. But does that surprise you? He also claims to have known nothing about Fast & Furious, Benghazi, the targeting of citizens by the IRS (even though he called on them publically to do it), that Obamacare website wasn't ready for prime time.......the list of what this president doesn't know goes on and on and on and on.....
But hey, rest assured......he DID know that the "police acted stupidly" in the local Prof Gates issue early in 2009, and he DID know that Trayvon Martin was innocent in that local issue.
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Post by fred on Oct 28, 2013 22:44:48 GMT
Perhaps you'd also add an apology for Bush's government as they started the spying. However, as all Muslims support suicide bombings and murder; I don't believe your assertion regarding most Americans not supporting spying on friendly nations. Everyone knows,all Americans are the same.
Oh yes, we know, this is yet one more thing that Obama knew nothing about!Ah, I'm a liberal because I point out your need to ignore reality in order to make your anti Obama scheme work. In fact I'm a Thatcherite but you may have to google that in some weak attempt to understand what that means. |
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Post by ShivaTD on Oct 29, 2013 12:46:27 GMT
PROVIDE PROOF OF THAT PLEASE. WE WANT THE ACTUAL STATEMENT FROM CHENEY where he said this, according to you.
BTW at the end he refers to the "enhance interrogation techniques" claiming that the White House lawyers reviewed the law and said they didn't represent torture but Title 18 defines torture and all of the enhanced interrogation techniques violated the Title 18 definition. Apparently Bush and the White House hired grossly incompetent lawyers because the fact was the law clearly established all of the enhanced interrogation techniques as torture.... and Cheney is hiding being incompetent attorneys.
The fact remains that the NSA has been violating the US Constitution and US laws for decades with illegal spying and Dick Cheney supports it. At least Obama ended the spying on foreign leaders when he became aware of it. Did Cheney or Bush do that when they were in the White House and this was going on? Did Bush or Cheney end Project Gunrunner when it resulted in providing the Mexican drug cartels with firearms? Is President Obama responsible for the continuation of the massive NSA spying US citizens and foreign leaders and for operation Fast and Furious that was a part of Project Gunrunner? Absolutely but these really were carry-overs from the prior administration just like GIMTO, the Iraq War (now ended) and the Afghanistan War were all carry-overs from the prior administration.
Often the wrongful actions of one administration are carried over into the next. In these cases there is joint responsibility and that must be acknowledged. When we should give credit, not condemnation, is when an administration ends the wrongful actions of government. As I mentioned I'd consider Obama a hero if he shut down the NSA completely. We could actually go back and blame Truman for the problems with the NSA today because he created this damn organization that has been violating our Rights for decades and every president since Truman up to and including President Obama for not abolishing it.
The NSA is the problem more so that the last 12 presidents that mutually share the blame for the NSA's violations of the US Constitution, US law, and the Rights of the People.
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Post by ShivaTD on Oct 31, 2013 12:31:26 GMT
"If my friend robs a bank it's okay for me to share in the plunder"
That's the apparent belief of General Keith Alexander that is the head of the NSA. According the Alexander the spying on millions of Europeans was conducted by their spy agencies and the NSA simply shared in the "plunder" of this personal information by those agencies.
This rationalization is typical of rogue agencies like the NSA. "We didn't steal it but we will knowingly accept that which was wrongfully stolen."
The fact it that the NSA spying goes far beyond what Congress and the White House has ever known about. It is a rogue government agency that will never be brought under control. It has grossly violated the conditions of search and seizure warrants issued by the United States Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court ( FISC, also called the FISA Court) at will and has never fully disclosed its full spying activities to Congress or the White House. This is a historical fact and it will never change.
There is one solution and one solution only. ABOLISH THE NSA!
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Post by JP5 on Oct 31, 2013 16:20:25 GMT
I couldn't believe it this morning. CNN showed part of an interview with former Vice President Dick Cheney where he basically stated that the problem was not with the NSA violating the Rights of Americans protected by the 4th Amendment by tracking all of our emails and phone conversation or with the NSA spying on our allies but instead that it was ALL Snowden's fault for revealing that the NSA was doing this. That about made me fall out of my chair.
That's right Dick, don't blame the agency that is the problem, blame the person that made Americans aware of the scope and severity of the problem!!! In Cheney's sick and twisted mind it's okay to violate the US Constitution and the trust of our allies as long as no one knows about it. What they hell Dick, why not just have the US government murder the political opposition to your political beliefs and it will be "okay" as long as no one knows about it.
 Really?? |
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Really??