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Post by fred on Feb 25, 2014 4:36:10 GMT
(1) I really do not care to go searching for your links. If you would like to post them again, in this thread, I will have a look. Dude, it's a one page thread - don't be so ruddy lazy. |
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Post by iolo on Feb 25, 2014 17:11:22 GMT
Oh, by the way, the European Union has now recognized the new government in Kiev-- not the deposed government--as the legitimate government of Ukraine. (It remains to be seen what move Vladimir Putin will make next.) I have yet to check that but, assuming it's true, the E.U. are siding with unelected groups against elected ones. Much as I have no love for the outgoing, they were elected by the popular vote, not foreign politicians. Yes - very corrupt countries don't suddenly get better if paid gangs riot, do they? |
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Post by pjohns1873 on Feb 25, 2014 21:12:08 GMT
Oh, by the way, the European Union has now recognized the new government in Kiev-- not the deposed government--as the legitimate government of Ukraine. (It remains to be seen what move Vladimir Putin will make next.) I have yet to check that but, assuming it's true, the E.U. are siding with unelected groups against elected ones. Much as I have no love for the outgoing, they were elected by the popular vote, not foreign politicians. I believe that democracy--properly understood, anyway--is about much more than just elections. Otherwise, you have the proverbial case of the two foxes and a chicken voting on what to have for dinner. The now-deposed president of the ukraine, Viktor Yushchenko (who has fled, unceremoniously, to the eastern part of the country), greatly diminished the parliament's powers several years ago, while correspondingly enhancing his own power. Shades of the late Hugo Chavez in Venezuela! (Come to think of it, that is not too different from what President Obama is attempting in the US.) |
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Post by pjohns1873 on Feb 25, 2014 21:16:08 GMT
The American rebels were certainly a gang of thugs... Well, now we can be certain exactly where you stand... |
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Post by pjohns1873 on Feb 25, 2014 21:17:26 GMT
(1) I really do not care to go searching for your links. If you would like to post them again, in this thread, I will have a look. Dude, it's a one page thread - don't be so ruddy lazy. If you really wish for me to read it, you will post it again. If you are entirely indifferent to the matter--well, so am I. |
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Post by fred on Feb 26, 2014 2:49:03 GMT
I have yet to check that but, assuming it's true, the E.U. are siding with unelected groups against elected ones. Much as I have no love for the outgoing, they were elected by the popular vote, not foreign politicians. Yes - very corrupt countries don't suddenly get better if paid gangs riot, do they? Not that I've noticed. You tend to get different people skimming off the top. |
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Post by fred on Feb 26, 2014 2:50:51 GMT
Dude, it's a one page thread - don't be so ruddy lazy. If you really wish for me to read it, you will post it again. If you are entirely indifferent to the matter--well, so am I. I have to be honest, if you can't be bothered to look through so few posts, you're either stupid or deliberately avoiding the issue because you don't want it to be true. The latter case would lead me to suspect you're stupid. Bit of a no win situation for you. |
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Post by fred on Feb 26, 2014 2:52:34 GMT
I have yet to check that but, assuming it's true, the E.U. are siding with unelected groups against elected ones. Much as I have no love for the outgoing, they were elected by the popular vote, not foreign politicians. I believe that democracy--properly understood, anyway--is about much more than just elections. Otherwise, you have the proverbial case of the two foxes and a chicken voting on what to have for dinner. The now-deposed president of the ukraine, Viktor Yushchenko (who has fled, unceremoniously, to the eastern part of the country), greatly diminished the parliament's powers several years ago, while correspondingly enhancing his own power. Shades of the late Hugo Chavez in Venezuela! (Come to think of it, that is not too different from what President Obama is attempting in the US.) Democracy is always a lie. Basic ally, the best liar gets the job and screws the ones who voted for the lesser liar. |
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Post by pjohns1873 on Feb 27, 2014 4:44:16 GMT
I believe that democracy--properly understood, anyway--is about much more than just elections. Otherwise, you have the proverbial case of the two foxes and a chicken voting on what to have for dinner. The now-deposed president of the ukraine, Viktor Yushchenko (who has fled, unceremoniously, to the eastern part of the country), greatly diminished the parliament's powers several years ago, while correspondingly enhancing his own power. Shades of the late Hugo Chavez in Venezuela! (Come to think of it, that is not too different from what President Obama is attempting in the US.) Democracy is always a lie. Basic ally, the best liar gets the job and screws the ones who voted for the lesser liar. That is just a bit too cynical for my tastes. (Sometimes, blatent cynicism attempts to masquerade as "realsim," or as something else equally respectful.) |
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Post by pjohns1873 on Feb 27, 2014 4:54:23 GMT
If you really wish for me to read it, you will post it again. If you are entirely indifferent to the matter--well, so am I. I have to be honest, if you can't be bothered to look through so few posts, you're either stupid or deliberately avoiding the issue because you don't want it to be true. The latter case would lead me to suspect you're stupid. Bit of a no win situation for you. It is only (1) trolls; and (2) puerile posters, lacking self-confidence, who resort to ad hominem assaults upon others. Which are you? |
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Post by pjohns1873 on Feb 27, 2014 5:01:05 GMT
From JFK's 1961 Inaugural Address:
How does this square with the Obama doctrine?
Or have we "evolved" in this regard, within the past 53 years?
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Post by fred on Feb 27, 2014 5:33:15 GMT
I have to be honest, if you can't be bothered to look through so few posts, you're either stupid or deliberately avoiding the issue because you don't want it to be true. The latter case would lead me to suspect you're stupid. Bit of a no win situation for you. It is only (1) trolls; and (2) puerile posters, lacking self-confidence, who resort to ad hominem assaults upon others. Which are you? Neither. I'm someone who doesn't suffer fools gladly. You are deliberately trying to avoid the proof I posted with some rubbish about not being able to find the links. That's probably the most pathetic excuse since, The dog ate my homework. |
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Post by pjohns1873 on Feb 27, 2014 19:44:12 GMT
It is only (1) trolls; and (2) puerile posters, lacking self-confidence, who resort to ad hominem assaults upon others. Which are you? Neither. I'm someone who doesn't suffer fools gladly. You are deliberately trying to avoid the proof I posted with some rubbish about not being able to find the links. That's probably the most pathetic excuse since, The dog ate my homework. More accurately, I am quite indifferent to your claims. If you truly wish for me to examine these, you will post the links again. If you simply do not care that much, well, then neither do I. Oh: And what I said in the previous post--about trolls and puerile people, lacking self-confidence--remains in effect... |
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Post by Oddquine on Feb 27, 2014 23:18:59 GMT
So any gang of thugs with local support can overthrow any elected government and expect US help? Heil bloody Hitler, and God save us all! Presumably, if you had been alive in colonial America in the 1770s, you would have seen the American revolutionaries as a mere "gang of thugs" also. Oh, by the way, the European Union has now recognized the new government in Kiev-- not the deposed government--as the legitimate government of Ukraine. (It remains to be seen what move Vladimir Putin will make next.) It's interesting as someone who is a member of a movement trying to achieve Independence, peacefully, from the UK to see the "policemen of the world" rhetoric which appears to favour citizen group uprisings as they get together to support the effort (because they can influence the new Government into Western style "democracy/capitalism"?)....while we, in Scotland, are subjected to interference from every foreign/international entity our parent government can get onside, (including the USA), as well as childish footstamping and pouting from the UK Government. Time to time, I say, kinda tongue in cheek, that, given Ireland got all the concessions from the UK that we expect, but are being told will not happen...the use of sterling, the open borders etc, maybe our biggest mistake was to try to do it peacefully....and not take up arms to enforce change. When you listen to UK Government ministers on the Ukraine situation, and compare that with their input to the Independence debate in Scotland.it certainly does appear that Independence is just fine.......unless you want to be independent of them.......and then the concept of democracy is out the window! The UK and Scottish Governments signed, with fanfare, the Edinburgh Agreement regarding the Referendum, with clauses as to the conduct of the campaigns........and it has been torn up by Westminster...........much as they have the Treaty of Union when it suited them. We have even had a UK rag of a newspaper warning that Scotland, if it votes for Independence will erupt into another Ukraine. Imo, the best chance of that happening, will be if we vote NO and stay in the Union after the Campaign being conducted to date by Westminster with the aid of the MSM. |
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Post by iolo on Feb 28, 2014 18:08:32 GMT
The American rebels were certainly a gang of thugs... Well, now we can be certain exactly where you stand... Against bullying thugs, aye. (Too succinct again, dammo, dammo, dammo!) |
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